Posted on April 1, 2008 by Kathy McManus in All, Parenting Comments (115)
Babies in the Bar
So this baby walks into a bar, and …
Well, the baby didn’t actually walk into the bar—it was in a stroller, pushed by its mother, who was going to have a drink or two with some other moms who brought their kids, and…that’s why this is no joke.
There’s a bar fight brewing across the country. In Seattle, Austin, Philadelphia, Boston and beyond, bar patrons are getting lathered up on both sides of a polarizing parenting issue: is it responsible (or even acceptable) to belly up to the bar with young children in tow?
Those opposed to the mix of cocktails and sippy cups have posted their unequivocal sentiments on numerous online message boards and blogs, like this one in Philadelphia: “I do not want to be in a bar around children. Ever. Bars are for adults.”
Stroller grid-lock has been increasing in bars—often under signs that say “No One Under 21 Admitted”—along with the irritation of patrons who object to shoving crayons out of the way of their cosmos.
Those pushing for more kids in more bars are usually the same people pushing the strollers: mothers of the pre-school set, who say: “We want to do everything we always did, but with our babies.”
So when the owner of a bar in Brooklyn recently posted a “Please No Strollers” sign, he opened yet the latest front in the battle of the bottle. Moms seethed, while critics— like this one in Tucson —applauded: “Grow up, people,” she wrote. “Your lives are different now.”
Tell us what you think: Are we lowering the responsibility bar by allowing kids in the neighborhood bar?
Comments (115)
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leave the babies at home
These moms are crying they want to still be able to do things they did before they became moms???? Well someone tell them means protecting your child and taking them into a bar is just irresponsible. Hats off to the bar owner who posted the sign no strollers allowed inside but I can see these moms toting their kids in by the hip…better question is how are these moms and tots getting home? Are they driving? Walking? I can see a little one saying “mommy I want to go to the bar and watch those pool games instead of watching Barney” (laugh)
Yuppies with Puppies
You have a child – not a puppy. Your life is forever different and some of the things you used to do – you cannot/must not do now. Be responsible – be an adult – use judgment. A bar is no place for a child.
WHAT!!!???
These alleged “moms” who want to take a child into a bar need to be jailed! The minute you have a baby you become second in line. YOUR BABY COMES FIRST!! As horrible as it sounds, I think some people need to be sterilized! My mother was and still is a great example of a kind,l oving mother who sacrificed here own wants and needs for me and my siblings like any GOOD MOTHER would.
are you serious?
I am a mother and the the thought of bringing my son into a bar would never cross my mind…Is this what parents are doing now? I think that is absolutely insanse. The parents that do that should be punished in someway. If they wanted to go to the bar hire a babysitter then go, do not bring your kids with you.
Stay home!!!
I am a mom I would NEVER think about taking my 5yr old into a bar to have a drink with some girlfriends. I agree with Terrance T. What kind of example are they setting for their children, they should be jailed. That’s a cool story for the kid to tell when their sitting in a cell @ the age of 13, yea my mom used to take me to bars when I was 4. This annoys ME, these moms need to wake up & realize it is not right. ALL bar owners should ban strollers & kick out a parent who does have a child with them.
Parental Oppression
I am not entirely comfortable with Mother’s or Father’s bringing their children of any age into a bar. However there is a greater issue at hand here. And that is how are parents supposed to get there needs for socialization met if we ban them from it. I praise the people who are will to stand up for their needs and get together with their friends in public. It is time that we as a nation accept children and parenting as natural and not to be left at home. Depression in mothers is a huge issue so if they were able to take their children and go have a normal “adult” experience with out the judgment and the condemnation there would probably be a lot less depression. Why is it that once you become a parent all of a sudden what was normal is now not ok and everything must revolve around the children? We as a nation need to stop oppressing, judging every situation for what was past generations morals.
Parental Oppression?
I’m a little stunned at the concept that taking a child to a bar would help stem depression in mothers. Oh, please.
adult experiences?
Parents shouldn’t be having “adult experiences” with their children. If they wish to socialize with kids in tow, they should go somewhere kid-friendly, where the kids can socialize with other kids in a safe, stimulating environment while the moms and dads mingle. A bar is not such a place. If mom and dad want to go to a bar, hire a babysitter. As for bar owners, if the law does not allow kids under 21 to enter the establishment, call the cops. Even if no laws are being broken, owners have the right to refuse service and can take a stand by not serving parents with young children. Let them call foul all they want—everyone knows that bars are no place for kids!
"Oppressed Parents"
…and other misnomers. It’s interesting to me that the words “normal adult experience” were used. There are many “normal adult experiences” that are inappropriate for children. Hence the words, “adult experience”. If a mother is depressed because of the grief she’s getting from taking baby into a bar so she can have her “adult experience”, I’d say that mother has several more pressing reasons to be depressed.
contributing to the delinquency of minors/babies
I am surprised these irresponsible mothers are not being charged criminally for some type of crime. What are they teaching their children? And where are the babies fathers? Can the bar workers not refuse service to them?
Are you kidding me?
Kids in bars??? Oh I think not. You want to be able to do the things you did before….then don’t have kids. Welcome to the world of being a grown up. You have responsibilities for something other than yourself! Children thrive from their environment, which I would not consider a bar to be one of the choices. You want to socialize with other mom’s and kids, go to the park! Be resourceful. If it’s cold, go to an indoor pool. You want to have some drinks and do grown up stuff, get a babysitter!!!!!!!
hire a sitter
I do not think these moms should be bringing these children to the bar as many of you think. Why not hire a sitter? I have to wonder how old these moms range in…
Responsibility has no age range
That’s not a fair speculation…I’m a young mom (22) and I would never even consider taking my child into a bar! And I have seen plenty of older mom’s who could use a few lessons on responsible parenting.
Mothers can have a drink too!
I am a bartender at a bar that is both a restaurant and a less respectable place at night. Parents (mothers and fathers) frequently come in with their babies after a long stroll through the park and have a beer. If the baby gets unruly they leave. I see no problem with this. It is certainly one thing if the parents are getting drunk or if the children are being neglected, but I think a parent enjoying the day with her child should also be able to have a glass of wine! The puritanical attitude in this country draws black and white lines everywhere that there shouldn’t be. I don’t think anyone in France, or Spain, or Ireland, or even Canada looks down their nose at a mother having a glass of wine at a bar with a baby’s stroller at her feet! If we want to be responsible parents we have to be reasonable parents first!
To Karen
There are many places u can go such as Fridays, Chili’s, AppleBees, any bar n grill. Not a damn BAR. Why would any parent have any alcohol to drink when they’re driving with their children. If they want a night out they should get a babysitter.
Get a babysitter
Bars are for adults ONLY. Period. Nothing else to say.
drink responsibly
Let’s just hope that NONE of these moms are drinking and driving, at all not even one drink and especially not with kids in tow. And as far as wanting to do everything they did before becoming parents with their babies…that is just not acceptable. Some things are not meant to be done with your kids. Seriously, get a sitter or get over it. This is, however, assuming that the bars we’re talking about are BARS, not restaurants with bars in them. and in that case babies STILL should NOT be AT the bar. I am a very young mom of two kids and while most people my age live at bars and clubs I would never even think about compromising the safety of my child by taking them to a place full of drinking adults. It’s absurd to think any parent feels like taking a child to a bar is appropriate.
Drinking Responsibly
The question shouldn’t be about moms drinking, it’s just how and when they do it. I’m 18. I have a 2 and a 3 year old sister. My parent’s drink, AFTER the kids go to bed. I think that it would be socialy acceptible for a group of mom’s to go to a bar and talk about mom things or whatever hit they’re fancy. But most people drink to change the state they’re in, and you shouldn’t be impairing yourself, even just a little, when your responsible for the life a child. So if you want to have a drink, scedule a time to do it – hire a baby sitter or tell your spouse/signifigant other, and it would be preferable to do it after your children are asleep for the night. Parenting shouldn’t hinder your social life, but your children should take a higher priority than yourself.
i don't care.
When i go get drunk, i don’t want no1’s child staerring at me. Bars should be child-free zones.
Sure! Beer for Everyone!
I have 3 small boys. I became pregnant with my oldest at the age of 19 and when that happened I knew it was time to grow up! Look, if you wanna drink with your kids around, do it at home, in the safety of your own home! That’s what my husband and I do. If we’re not able to get a babysitter to go out, then we stay in, put the kids to bed and watch a movie and drink. It’s called thinking of your child’s welfare. Quit being selfish and put them first! So yes I do agree with Terrance when he says the parents should be jailed because all your doing is promoting alcoholism. Won’t you feel great when your child grows up and gets behind the wheel and kills someone from a DUI? I know I’d be devastated because I try to instill morales within them.
What's a bar, and whose morals are right?
I think we first need to clarify what we are referring to as a “bar” when we post comments. If the establishment has no other purpose other than serving alcoholic beverages (and the occasional cheese sandwich or nasty mixed nuts), it should be held to a different standard than the “mainly a bar but also has a restaurant” as some of the microbreweries in my area are, or the “mainly a restaurant which also has a bar” like a TGI Friday’s.
Ultimately, it’s up to the business owner to determine the standards to which he wants to hold his establishment. While I’d really like to apply my own morals to the situation, and I’d be the first to shout from the nearest rooftop what I think of mothers who bring children into bars, it’s not up to me to impose my morals on the rest of society. If the business owner wants to stay in business, he’ll do what the majority of right-minded people in the community want done, within the boundaries of the law and child safety standards. The business owner should determine, based on the environment of his establishment, what the age of the patrons should be. So when the sign says “Must be 21 or older to enter” that should apply to little kids as well, because it’s not just the alcohol, but the environment, that we are restricting to adults.
We can’t prevent mothers from teaching children bad things, including teaching them what happens to mommy when she pounds a few back. Unless, of course, the mother puts the child in danger, in which case it’s up to us to have CPS intervene. But while we have the freedom to teach our children the moral and spiritual lessons that we want, so too do bad mothers have the same right. It works both ways.
Partitioning our lives
So what’s the end goal here? Keeping kids away from anything that’s not padded and secured? Why don’t other cultures seem to have a problem with the generations mixing in a pub or a bar or what have you? I spent my 20’s surrounded by my peer group and guess what! It’s boring! Bring the kids with you and don’t overindulge. Be selective about which bar you’re taking them into – pick a friendly place that serves food and not smoke (obviously). Hey, maybe they’ll get to talk to someone who’s even older than you, or dance to the live music, or have an adventure. Don’t let their first exposure to the drinking culture be with kids their own age and a swimming pool full of grain alcohol. Let them see how people handle it. Integrate your lives a little!
social life?
“Parenting shouldn’t hinder your social life. “Get real, of course it does. If you want to drink invite your friends over in the evening and have a gal party. Serve drinks. Play cards, have a pampered chef party, whatever. If you want things to stay the same, don’t have kids.
Way to go Bar Owner!!!
I completely agree with the bar owner’s decision in this matter. When you decide to become a parent, it isn’t about your needs anymore. It is about the child’s needs. Unless a place specifically states that they are a family establishment and children are welcome then your children shouldn’t be there. Not only is it not responsible taking your child into a bar, now these parents are driving their vehicles home under the influence with their children. Obviously these people aren’t responsible to begin with, and apparently if they are so worried about doing what they did before they had kids, should they be parents?
No Bar Babies
I believe that babies are to be left at home with a babysitter. The only way a baby should be there is if they were picking up someone to take them home. And since they can’t drive, they don’t need to be there!!
INSANE
Children have no place in a bar!!!! For obvious reasons of course.. Also as a mother of three, I like to go out and catch drinks now and then with my girls… My children stay home with dad, so I can have “girls” night!! I go out to enjoy being an adult, and I feel I should not have to watch my mouth! Not that I have a terrible potty mouth, however, I go there to have conversations that I would never have in front of my kids!!! Nor do I want to have them in front of someone else children either!!!
Right & Wrong
The lines between right and wrong have become so blurred of late, this is actually coming up as an issue. It shouldn’t, and we should all stick up for the children and for what is right. Just because the Blondes in Hollywood chug-a-lug does not mean it has or ever should become socially acceptable for either sex to EVER bring a child into a bar. That’s why there are signs saying, “No one under 21 Admitted” and every bar owner and patron must stand up and INSIST this law be carried out. If those mothers want to meet friends for a social exchange, they can do so in any number of restaurants which will be happy to serve them a glass of wine with their meal, though I prefer church groups for my own ‘mommy & me’ meet-ups. When I was a kid, my father used to drag me to bars, and my mom would drag us both out. I still remember hanging on to the door frame, begging him not to take me in, where all the smelly drunks would breathe on me and touch me and tell me how pretty I was… shudder …it’s not something I ever want another child to have to experience. Mine never did, you may rest assured.
bar kid
i didnt know this was still a problem. u see i was a bar kid and i hated it!! i hated the smells i hated the people. drunk people want to walk up and try and play with u, I HATED IT. i now have 2 boys whom i dont even drink around at all. so parents STOP thinking of only yourself and what your missing because i can tell you your childs mental health is being damaged.
All bars (and parents) are not created equal
Does a responsible parent bring a child of any age into a dive bar or pickup joint? Uh, no and no. But anyone who’s ever been to Europe knows that pubs there—and plenty of their jovial (but not seedy) resto/bar brethren — can be perfectly appropriate environments for kids, and no one suffers for it there. These days, the same applies to many environments in America — at an appropriate hour (i.e., not too late into the night), with an appropriate crowd, and with vigilant supervision at the table. Good parents aren’t going to go and get plowed at the bar while their kids turn the place into romper room (seriously, does this even really every happen? At least outside of an episode of Cops?) they’ll go and have a beer or two at a table, see a friend, have some good conversation, maybe a meal, and take off. If their kid isn’t behaving or is unhappy there, they leave, just like at any other kind of establishment. It’s up to parents to use their own personal decision-making skills, which is why making any hard-and-fast rules (including bans from owners or harsh pre-judgements from some of the readers of this site) are totally unhelpful.
Btw, mere mention of the “21 and over” rule in reference to young kids is completely absurd — the law is clearly there to stop kids old enough to try and pass off a fake id, not a toddler who can barely hold their sippy cup straight.
Are you kidding me?
Listen, I’m not going to be one of those crazy parents that puts the kid in a bubble, but there is no place for a child in a bar. It’s not healthy for starters. Not to mention, is the kid the designated driver? If it’s an establishment that serves dinner and has a dining area, so be it. But let’s keep the tykes out of the corner pub for a few years.
I WAS A CHILD WHO'S PARENTS BROUGHT ME TO THE BAR.
BOTH OF MY PARENTS BROUGHT ME TO THE BARS WHEN I WAS YOUNGER ,AND AS AN ADULT I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN OF MY OWN WHO WILL NEVER STEP FOOT IN A BAR !! ATLEAST AS A UNDERAGE CHILD WITH ME.. I HERD HORIBLE WORDS SEEN DRUGS USED A BAR IS A GATHERING PLACE FOR ADULTS NOT A PLACE TO BRING YOUR CHILDREN YOUR PARENTS RAISE YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO WANT DRINK AND SMOKE INSTED OF TAKEING THEM TO BARS GO TO A MOMMIE AND ME OR A WALK ….DONT BRING THEM TO A BAR…
babies in bars, u got to b joking
what mother in their right mind would bring their child to a bar. Are they insane! This is so irresponsible. The mother’s or fathers that do this should lose their kids. I would turn them into the authorities. I am a mother of two young children. I would never bring my children into a bar. This no place for children. It is like you are telling them it is okay to drink, and drive. It just goes to show that most kids who get into trouble with the law themselves when they get older comes from lack of ethics in good parenting. I mean a bar? come on now.
SO WHAT
I take my little one to a Bar.I have taken her there since she was one month old. now she is going to be four this month. And i plan on taking her there for her birthday. I never took her stroller in just her car seat. nobody has ever said anything about her being there.
Right ON Bill
I love what Bill has to say about not imposing our morals on others. He’s right.
At the same time… When you choose to raise a child (as opposed to using Birth Control or giving babies for adoption), you choose a lifestyle that like it or not revolves around children and their needs for a while. If you want an adult experience, experience it with Adults. Or go to McD’s or Burger King with other moms. That’s what I do.
Drink at home if you can’t afford a sitter. It’s cheaper that way anyway.
no bar babies
Parents can get their socialization needs met just as soon as their kids get all of their needs met! Any person who has worries about their social life being affected by having kids should not have them. Thats one of the worst problems society faces today:people who want to have a career and social life that excludes their parenting responsibilities.
defending both sides...
Let me just say that I am a parent of a 15 month old. But, I agree that babies shouldn’t be allowed in bars.. Fist off, most all bars allow smokers I don’t want my baby near that or the stumbling obnoxious drunks. I’ll also say that the drinkers more than likely go to the bar to get away from there own kids or responsibitys ect. so my advice if you cant get a sitter, go to a restraunt with a bar and order your drinks from the “NON smoking section” and drink away (but of course get a DD)!
Untitled
As someone who knows some of these moms – let me clarify a bit.
A large (non-smoking bar) in NYC, during the daytime, that serves lunch – more like a restaurant that serves alcohol. Stay at home moms getting together to share camraderie, diapers, and a bit of laughter in a LONG day.
Now, those of you judging a situation that you do not know, might you re-think your positions? Should these moms STILL be refused a chance to join together for a meal, and yes, even (gasp, horror!) a glass of wine?
I think not. And I’m constantly amazed at how people JUMP all over someone for something you read on the INTERNET, without having first hand knowledge of a situation.
If only those who judge and are SO indignant could be so indignant about the major crisises of the world, we’d all be better off…
What's worse?
Seriously, I think a LOT depends on the social scene at the establishment. If it is a restaurant that caters to families, fine. Table service would be a better option. I’m a mom and would drink with friends while my child is present. Not like a rock star, but a decent wine to compliment cuisine, sure. Would I take my kid to a smokey dungeon of broken glass and rude language? No. Would I intrude on a romantic night spot where people propose marriage and celebrate anniversaries? NO WAY. I don’t think it’s right. The problem is people who can’t seem to set (and reinforce) limits with their kids. I like the idea of the old school pub or beer garden or tavern where all are welcome like in Europe. But not every place can offer the same kind of hospitality. Kind of nice to have options.
So American
As usual this is an issue that seems to only plague Americans. Why do some of us have the incessant need to bring our children everywhere as well as imposing on those around us all of the accoutrements that must follow with them? I feel that it is ridiculous that those of us who have chosen not to reproduce or bring our children into historically adult establishments are finding ourselves pushed out of the very places we once could find refuge in. The stroller issue further complicates matters as it unnecessary and in most cases an annoyance to those around you. I have seen this so many times when my husband and I travel abroad. It is so easy to point out the American tourists, as they are the only ones lugging around all this nonsense associated with their kids. They create longer lines and frustrate those of us who have traveled specifically to Europe or wherever else to avoid the hassle of dealing with those that suffer from DWS or the Disney World Syndrome. Wake up Child Bearing America-your own country and the rest of the World for that matter is not here to cater to you or your kids!
No Excuses!
First off using depression as an excuse to go to the bar and drink is not acceptable, any doctor will inform you and if you read your prescription bottle; not to consume alcohol while suffering with depression/or taking medicine, this by now should be universal knowledge.
Second if you want to socialize there are other places to go and socialize with your friends,examples:
Park, Barnes and Noble, museums, library, in your friends home, church, you can find support groups on line for parents to get together and socialize, don’t forget their are programs at community colleges specifically made for you and your child to learn and socialize with other parents the list can go on but I might run out of space, if you don’t have any friends you still can socialize with strangers at these exact places. All it takes is a little creativity and the “want” to be “responsible” like the website name says. Please parents let’s use our heads a little more often, I think it would really help the world for our future leaders of America.
Yes! Lock em' all up at home!
What else would I expect from our mother/child hating culture…yet another way to separate real life (families and children) from the world.
Child free is my choice.
I admire those that have had the opportunity to raise a family in any circumstance. I chose not to have children due to the lack of mature and responsible partner, because raising a child is not about ME or for ME, and I could not do it alone. Therefore, I have the freedom to live my life as I see fit. I would never impose a crying child on bar patrons looking for a peacefull escape. I do not believe we are a mother/child hating society (look at all our social services!) but there should be LIMITS! Think about your kids and the folks in the bar, not about yourself and the life you wish you still had.
Untitled
If we want a responsible society, then I suggest we quit banning, judging, condemning and otherwise tormenting others for values and choices that don’t match our own. Some neighborhood bars do have a family atmosphere. Others don’t. I trust my fellow humans to make choices they believe are right, and to learn from their choices so they can choose again. Oh, and yes, I’m a mom.
Get over yourselves
America is so prude. In Europe even tots go to Discos with their parents and dance and hang out and there is no drinking or drug problem there because kids are exposed to things in a sensible manner. If there is no smoking in bars anymore in the US there is no problem with a mom having a drink with her stroller. Get over yourselves. I doubt that moms are carousing at midnight with their kids in tow. It’s the same backwards mentality that frowns about public breastfeeding. Children have the same rights as adults. Please. Moms can do everything with their tots!
The bar is not the world
Mom’s (or Dad’s) you don’t HAVE to go and get an alcoholic drink for lunch – you WANT to. There are many better places to meet for adult intereaction. Take your kid to a park, library, etc. Why a bar? It’s because your selfish. (Oh, and kids in Europe don’t go to Disco’s with their parents) Children don’t have the same rights as adults and mom’s CAN’T do everything with their tots…
COME ON
First of all, I have three children. I don’t drink, and NEVER would if I had the kids with me. But, there have been times when I was picking my husband up from a bar when I had to bring the youngest two kids-BRIEFELY-into the bar to tell my husband I was there to take him home. And there have been times when rude people have told me I couldn’t stand in the door and tell my husband I was there to get him. Which is wrong. I have every right to go in, get my spouse, and get out in two minutes or less to take him home.
Now, I think a woman should be able to enjoy a beer, or glass of wine-and I do mean ONE glass-on occasion. I’m sure one cup doesn’t hurt anything, but I do have one problem here. Do these women know that second hand smoke can cause asthma and other problems with their kids? Shame on them. They can have their cups of wine somewhere that smoking is not allowed. And again, more than one cup should be prohibited unless there is a person to take care of the kiddies and to drive too.
just a mom
I am a mother of two children. And i do like to go out on occasion and have a few drink and have a good time… but i wouldn’t ever think about bringing my child into a bar. A bar is not a place for a child… but i do understand if the parents are wanting to take their child to a “restaurant/bar” like applebee’s or tgi friday’s or a family type atmosphere that happens to have a bar and/or serves alcohol. I do not see anything wrong with a parent having a drink at lunch or dinner with the child present as long as it in done in moderation. I don’t think the parents should be toting their child down to the corner bar to have a drink… where it is not a family atmosphere… its a drinking one… and i don’t think a child should be introduced to that until they are mature enough to understand it.
But i do not see anything wrong with have a drink in front of a child… heck… you can get a beer at Chuck E Cheese nowadays! Just be responsible about it.
Afraid to grow up or what?
I used to go with my mom to the bar back in a small town where I was born. But we only went for lunch and they all were very close to us like family. I have fond memories of having cherry coke filled with maraschino cherries( I was pretty spoiled by them all). But things have changed now.I would never take my kid to a bar with strangers drinking.I won’t even take them to the well known bar/family restaurants, it just doesn’t feel right. I take them with me to friends or family while we have a few drinks and I NEVER drive after I drink even if it’s only 1 drink.But I can do this because I know who they are and HOW the handle their alcohol. I really can’t believe people want their kids around other people who are looking to “hook-up”.I can imagine how uncomfortable it would be for the people without kids so why isn’t it uncomfortable for the parents? I can also kind of imagine them to be the kind of Grandparents that don’t like to be called By those terms but called as their names and the candles on the cake stay at 30 for like 15 years or so. ;)
What is a bar?
I agree with Bill- we need to define our terms. I remember reading an article about these Brooklyn parents bringing their babies to the bar with them- I think it was a microbrewery/restaurant type of place. Bringing an infant to a place like that in the middle of the day or late afternoon after a walk in the park to meet up with friends and have maybe one drink, or a cup of coffee or a snack, I personally see no problem with that. Once these kids are toddlers, they should not be running around in a bar. It not an appropriate place for a child. These parents need to be considerate of the other patrons who may very well be there trying to get a break from their own children.
As for wanting to live their lives the same way they did before that had children, that is just not realistic. Once you have children, your life changes, there is no use pretending that it doesn’t.
What's wrong with kids in bars?
I remember a day when people didn’t need signs and laws to tell them how to behave. You knew how to do it and if you didn’t, you’d get a pounding. I grew up in bars, my dad drank. A lot. And when I was with him two weekends a month we’d go to the bar and hang out. To this day I can’t get enough pretzels! I didn’t grow up to be a mean drunk. I can stop being mean anytime I want. I say, let ‘em in and keep the milk shots coming. Would you rather your babies be hanging out in a bar without you?
Right to Refuse
Of course bars should be allowed to refuse service to moms with strollers in tow if they have a sign stating that no one under 21 is admitted. That’s ridiculous. If it says no one under 21, that’s what it means. No exceptions. Anything else is violating the right of the establishment to refuse service to anyone for any reason AND protect themselves to comply with Federal alcohol sale laws
Besides that, a woman (or anyone, for that matter) who kept a child in a bar, strip club, or similarly “adult” place of business is at risk of being indicted for child endangerment.
There’s a big difference between a restaurant and a bar. Not allowing children into restaurants is annoying, but legally plausible. There’s no basis at all, however, for allowing children in an establishment that only serves alcohol. If there was, there wouldn’t be zoning laws about bars and schools.
Finally, I must agree with the posters who have said that your life changes when you have children. You wouldn’t expect to take your infant on horseback or roller coasters or scuba diving because they are considered dangerous to the child; why would you expect to bring your child into what other adults consider a dangerous situation without a fuss?
The Last Time I Checked...
“Under 21” includes babies If my friends and I want to get together, with our kids, we go to a cafe. If we want to get a drink, we hire a sitter (or let our husbands/partners take care of the kids)!
Yes, depression and isolation IS a serious concern for new moms. But I don’t think a bar is the best place to solve it.
Untitled
For those who keep comparing Americans to Europeans.
In case you haven’t noticed we are not living in Europe. Every country is different,different cultures, different idiosyncrasies everyone is just different that’s what makes the world so grand. I’m sorry we tag along our children with us EVERYWHERE we go, which by the way I hate generalizations and saying American’s cart their children EVERYWHERE is impossible feat to do. I guess that’s the difference with American’s and European’s we actually don’t mind our children being with us, sorry if you don’t like that but we’re not going to stop. Now there things I don’t agree with that European’s do but I’ve never said anything bad about their culture or how and why do they do certain things, I go there to visit and enjoy the different culture.
Two issues
This issue (kids in bars) really brings together two separate ones. The very American attitude that alcohol is bad and should be hidden away from polite society (a bar is no place for kids). And the I don’t want your kid in my bar set.
Surprisingly much of the rest of the world gets by and actually thrives with drinking establishments that are family friendly.
Part of the problem here is chicken and egg. Pubs in the UK or cafes in Paris are very different from U.S. bars. They seem family friendly even to Americans who would never take a kid into a “bar” because they were built under a legal and social framework, where it is perfectly normal for adults to enjoy a responsible drink with their kids much as Americans do at home rather than one where a “bar” is defined as somewhere to go drink too much and seek sex partners.
You have a baby...in a bar!!!
When I started reading this story, the first thing that popped into my head was that line from Sweet Home Alabama. It’s shocking the places that people take or allow their children to go these days. It’s fine to want to go get some drinks with friends from time to time, but that’s what babysitters are for. Not only are the majority of the other bar patrons going to be displeased with the thought of a child being there, it’s not responsible as a parent to take a baby into that type of environment. With women having children younger and younger these days, it’s understandable why they may want to do so…but they have to understand that motherhood comes with a great deal of responsibility, and while you can maintain some sense of normalcy after you have a baby, there are certain things you may have to sacrifice. Making a spur of the moment trip to have a few drinks, unless daddy’s available, is one of them.
My Two Cents
When I was four, my Mom, a single Mother, took up work as a Cocktail Artist at a local drinking establishment. Most of the time, my Mom was able to have my Grandma sit for me, but there were times when that just was not possible. As my Father had custody of my brother, my Mom was not awarded Child Support, so she could NOT afford to miss work. Days spent away from work meant days ahead that we would be going without eating. So my Mom took me to the local pub. And you know what? I only have GOOD memories of the place. No one fought when I was around. To the contrary, the patrons usually came over and talked to me. Some would even buy neat things for me like a giant teddy bear that was bigger than I was. Others would challenge me to a game of darts. I had fun. Did I become an Alcoholic? No. In fact, I never acquired a taste for alcohol. When I go to a bar, I usually order a lemon-lime soda. Do I think going to the bar turned me off of alcohol? No. Any kind of alcohol, wine, liqueurs, hard licquor, even beer all leave a funny after-taste on my palette.
That said, years later, when I had my own kids, I chose to be a SAHM. It was important to me to be sure that my children were cared for by a reliable, responsible, caring person that will uphold my values. I know my Mom and MIL well enough to know that not all of my rules for my children will be respected and I’ve heard enough scary stories from friends that sent their kids to sitters or daycare to know that none of those options were an option for me. Unfortunately, nothing prepared me for the isolation that I would feel as a SAHM. When my husband gets home from work, I’m desperate to have a conversation that has NOTHING TO DO WITH Pokemon or Dora The Explorer! One Saturday afternoon, after weeks of being cooped up in the house, I begged my husband to take me out. My husband chose to take us to a local Sports bar & grill. (And before we have the second-hand smoke police screaming at me, allow me to point out that it is ILLEGAL to smoke inside ANY bar in my state.) While we were there, no one was arguing/fighting. In fact, there weren’t even any loud conversations. One lady was even doing work on her laptop. Hardly anyone had anything but a glass of beer to drink, no one was visibly intoxicated, the establishment even had its own kids menu and before we left, a father and Grandfather came in with their children. Granted, I understand that there are people that look down on this sort of behavior, but it’s not my job to please those people. My job is to raise my children to become mentally/emotionally stable contributors to our society. I can’t do that if I’m ready to scream every time I hear the Pokemon theme song.
babies don't belong in bars
I am a mother of 2 little ones and I would never think of taking them in a bar. I actually think it should be illegal. One would assume if you (the parent) are drinking, you are also possibly driving and that is not only illegal but child endangerment.
Why not strip clubs?
Following this logic, whats wrong with taking the baby to a strip club? or a #### shop? you are kidding yourself if you think they are any different. maybe a stripper could work the breast feeding into a dance? Retards.
What were they thinking?
I think putting a ban on children in bars is the right thing to do. When you become a mother you’re committed to keeping that child safe like one comment I read how are these mothers with there children getting home? Do they drive after having a couple drinks? That and what kinds of people are you exposing your kids to. I’m just wondering but don’t most people in a bar go to drink? Why would you put young children around other intoxicated people that aren’t the best judge of what they are saying or doing with young ears around? And lastly I’m not saying don’t go out and let loose once in a while with the girls, but truly if you have the money to go out then you have the money for something called a babysitter.
Is it April 1st yet?
After reading this entry I scrolled up to see the entry date: April Fool’s joke, anyone?
God, I hope so.
What next? serve kids booze?
This is crazy these moms would take their babies to a bar and it should be banned.
Bars Vs. Restaurants W/ Liquor License
Valleester, I COMPLETELY understand where you’re coming from. A couple of years ago, when my kids were 1 and 3, my husband was out of town for 3 months, and I had no one to help me with the kids (who both have Autism). I was going stir crazy!
Plus, I think there’s a big difference between a bar and a bar & grill, like the one you described. Any place that has a kids’ menu is definitely child friendly! And I think it’s good for kids to see adults drinking responsibly.
What constitutes a bar?
Are we talking loud music, trivia machines and a dance floor? Or are we talking a ‘bar and grille’ type bar/restaurant combo? No, moms should not bring their kids out drinking. But if mom wants to go to her local grill and pub to get some fish and chips and a beer, she should very well be allowed. No one is saying that these moms are coming in and getting drunk- just have a drink. Would I ever bring my kid into a bar-bar? No. But heck, TGI Fridays could be constituted as a bar in someone’s eyes, depending on where the patrons were seated. If the establishment serves food and has booths or tables, I would say it’s alright to bring kids in for a MEAL while mom has A (1) drink. Also, certain times should also be avoided with kids. Perhaps allowing them before 7pm, when most of us that are ‘going out’ for the evening are out. There can be a compromise. However, mom- if you are going out to get drunk, or even so much as a BUZZ- get a babysitter and leave the kids at home. That’s just being responsible.
here's a question
if these are actually bars and is no one under 21 allowed then what happens when the police or whoever comes in to check id’s?..I mean this happens here sometimes and the ones w/o id’s or underage they either get arrested or detained….what is gonna happen when this happens w/these moms and babies?…get a sitter or wait until this kids are older that is what i have done and it works just fine….as for the bars stick to your guns i think i will save you some trouble down the road
how irresponsible to take kids to a bar
Bars are for adults not children, teens, and babies. If the parents want to get a drink then they should find a responsible babysitter to leave the kids with while they are at the bar. Bars aren’t safe for children. You never know what kinds of people will be at the bar that could harm your children. Bars smell like ash trays and beer and children don’t need to inhale those things.
I am torn.
I object to the limitations. Particularly from a vacationing perspective. I would like to stroll in with my toddler and have a great meal or drink as part of my travel experience. At home, I prefer to leave my little one with her father or a sitter as needed and spend some adult time with friends.
Truly, I do not want to listen to screaming and whining when I am enjoying a night out. I think that that rules applies to both children and adults. I’d rather the establishment ask people to leave whether they are 2 or 42 when they are disrupting the environment.
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To me, this symbolizes the anti-child attitude of some Americans. I’ve noticed that while Americans are relatively child friendly, the most vociferously anti-child people are also American and view it all in terms of their rights not to be disturbed. Guess what? Children exist.
I’ve lived in Europe for 4 years; while I’d never take my child out drinking I’d happily take them with me while I had a glass of wine or a beer. It all depends on the place, and I think a blanket discussion of “bars” is silly.
One drink is not child abuse. A bar or cafe is not a strip club. As for driving, in my experience this seems to be a city thing. Women aren’t off driving to bars.
It all depends...
While I lived in Spain, I saw many children doing their homework in my favorite local bar while their parents socialized or watched a futbol game and had a drink or two. These parents were not getting smashed, they were socializing, it was what they did to connect with others in their community. As long as the parents are being responsible in their consumption, and their children aren’t disrupting the fellow patrons, I really don’t see anything wrong with this.
when I was a kid.....
When I was a kid by dad used to take me in bars all the time. We’d hang out while we waited for my mom to get off the bus from work then we would have something to eat there. I’d sometimes sit in the booth and talk to the old Italian lady who prepped the shrimp while she told me stories and showed me how to devein. A lot of the people in my small town would be there eating. Like the post re: Spain…..they were socializing with the community. It wasn’t Club 54 for God sake! There is a difference here people….. I agree with most of the posts on both sides of the debate. People have to be parents and grow up but that doesn’t necessarily preclude going into establishments that might serve adult drinks with your kids. I learned about trajectory and some physics while playing at the pool table. I became friends with people of all ages. I was not afraid of appreciating that diversity brings richness into your life. As with anything….USE YOUR HEADS!!
Illegal?
Ummm, isn’t it against the LAW to bring anyone under 21 into a bar???
This is a new level of stupid.
As if it wasn’t bad enough when people who frequented bars for the sole purpose of polluting themselves with one of the worlds most deadly poisons started complaining about tobacco smoke in bars…
We’ve reached a new level of stupid.
I could go on for hours about the responsibilities of parenthood, the right of bar owners to enforce (or ignore) rules as they see fit, and the many other obvious arguments that this brings to light; but I am speechless.
Before you know it, they’ll be outlawing alcohol in bars, and we’ll be passing prohibitionist legislation at the national level. Do we never learn?
Is it wrong for bar patrons to be in a kid free environment? Absolutely not. Is it irresponsible for parents to bring their kids to the bar? Probably.
Not a bar
It was a bar and grill (think Applebees). No, it’s not bad to take kids to places like these-most have kids menus! And one cup of wine with food is fine-I think the issue here was stroller clutter.
jk rawlings
Well, if jk rawlings can pop out harry potter whilst being on welfare, in a bar and (gasp) having her kids with her… Anything’s possibly, right?
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In a non-smoking and a safe environment, parents should be able to enjoy a drink or two un-harassed by people who can’t be bothered by the mere sight of children and babies.
Talking about mothers in particular, not fathers, taking their babies to bars reveals a more general anti-mother/woman bias, with very harmful consequences. The burden is placed on mothers, in particular, to go somewhere else “more acceptable.” Women, upon becoming mothers, are commanded to change who they are and fake some (non-)personality, and put on some halo (and then their husbands complain that their wives don’t want to have sex anymore…). An artificial and arbitrary idea of purity is enforced on them. They have to be syrupy sweet. Soft. Etc. 100% devotion to one’s children warps to mean being 100% pastel all the time, rather than an individual in her own right, whose children grow up to respect as such, rather than take for granted as being their nurse/butt wiper/maid.
Some of the best, most interesting and intellectually stimulating conversations I’ve ever enjoyed were in bars in Boston. I’d like my child to be exposed to the sorts of relaxed, Friday-evening musings that come up when people think for fun and share ideas and theories with strangers sitting next to them or the next table over. Oh, and pool games vs. Barney the stupid purple dinosaur for my kid? Pool games. Hands-down.
Unspoken assumption seen here: drunk driving is okay as long as kids aren’t in the car. Makes the roads feel a whole lot scarier to me.
“Grow up and be responsible” – more of the type of black-and-white thinking that Americans do. If you’re a responsible parent, you’ll go to a decent bar.
Even if you get a little tipsy, good. Your kid/s will see that you’re not some uptight, hypocritical prude who can never let you hair down (such hypocrisy of course leading to an awful divide between parents and kids, leaving them unable to talk openly about the kids’ questions and issues as they grow older).
Pool games, good! Barney, bad!
In a non-smoking and safe environment, parents should be able to enjoy a drink or two un-harassed by people who can’t be bothered by the mere sight of children and babies.
Talking about mothers in particular, not fathers, taking their babies to bars reveals a more general anti-mother/woman bias, with very harmful consequences. The burden is placed on mothers, in particular, to go somewhere else “more acceptable.” Women, upon becoming mothers, are commanded to change who they are and fake some (non-)personality, and put on some halo (and then their husbands complain that their wives don’t want to have sex anymore…). An artificial and arbitrary idea of purity is enforced on them. They have to be syrupy sweet. Soft. Etc. 100% devotion to one’s children warps to mean being 100% pastel all the time, rather than an individual in her own right, whose children grow up to respect as such, rather than take for granted as being their nurse/butt wiper/maid.
Some of the best, most interesting and intellectually stimulating conversations I’ve ever enjoyed were in bars in Boston. I’d like my child to be exposed to the sorts of relaxed, Friday-evening musings that come up when people think for fun and share ideas and theories with strangers sitting next to them or the next table over. Oh, and pool games vs. Barney the stupid purple dinosaur (and t.v., the plug-in drug, in general) for my kid? Pool games. Hands-down.
Unspoken assumption seen here: drunk driving is okay as long as kids aren’t in the car. Makes the roads feel a whole lot scarier to me.
“Grow up and be responsible” – more of the type of black-and-white thinking that Americans do. If you’re a responsible parent, you’ll go to a decent bar.
Even if you get a little tipsy, good. Your kid/s will see that you’re not some uptight, hypocritical prude who can never let your hair down (such hypocrisy of course leading to an awful divide between parents and kids, leaving them unable to talk openly about the kids’ questions and issues as they grow older).
Boozing With Your Baby
Not only is it selfish for a mother to claim she should be able to do what she used to do and drag her baby along, it is ridiculously irresponsible. Who is to say that a mother who believes she has the right to drag her baby into a bar with her and her friends will have the brains enough to stop drinking before it is too much. I know if I were in a bar watching a mother with a baby have cocktails, beers, or shots I would be wondering how they are getting home? If they are so insistent on drinking with their kids in tow, they should be gathering at someone’s house where they have the opportunity to stay over should the need arise. Not that, under any circumstances should a mother be drunk with her child nearby. It would at the very least be a more responsible choice on the mother’s part. I don’t really understand why these women think that they should get to do whatever they want. I mean, I am all for not losing yourself, or your life when you have children, but there are some sacrifices you will have to make (such as drinking at a bar) temporarily until your child is grown or you can get a babysitter. It is just disgusting, in my opinion, that any woman who calls herself a mother would fight for this ridiculous right.
Stupid!!!!
I am a mother, and I have also worked in bars. There is no way I would take my child into one, and I think it is horrid when other moms bring their kids in. For safety reasons here are a few. 1) Waitress is in a hurry, and trips over a stroller. You now have an injured waitress, and if your lucky, baby unscathed. B) Bar room brawls. You never know when someone who has been drinking is going to suddenly decide someone looked at them funny, or cheated at pool. Then the fight is on, things being thrown, and a child gets hurt. Are you going to sue the brawlers, or look at yourself and say DUH? My bad. cause I can tell you the police and Social Services are going to say “Poor Mommy. It’s not your fault you made a bad decision, and brought your child to the bar!” Instead they will say what a dumb idiot you are, and press child endangerment, it not child abuse against you Mommy! Keep your kiddos at home or in the park where they belong!
Then what's wrong with the bars?
Could anyone who’s spent some time in Europe enlighten us as to how they handle this issue over there? Something tells me that in older and more enlightened societies parents can WALK or BIKE with their kids to friends’ houses or casual, laid-back places where your kids can have a pastry and the parents can have a glass of beer or wine.
Now that I’m 27, I feel like if the atmosphere isn’t appropriate for kids, I probably don’t want to be there anyway. (OK, it is fun to go to the library without kids…) But what’s wrong with our culture that when we say “bar” we are all thinking of a windowless dark room full of horny strangers, where people are drinking to excess and possibly fighting? Shouldn’t there be a friendly neighborhood patio type of place with lots of natural light, where you can have a beer, and which is NOT part of a national chain?
I Just Don't Get It
I am a young mom, I had my first child before I turned 21… I’m not sure if other states have the same laws as Indiana, but here we are not allowed to have ANYONE under 21 in a bar, not even the bar section of a resturant! I would never even consider bringing my children to a bar with me if they were allowed… it’s irresponsible. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with going to a bar and having a good time with you friends or whatever, but leave the babies at home where they’re safe. You never know what kind of people will be in those bars and it could be a huge mistake!!! Have fun and get out… but leave the babies at home.
BAR=NO....PUB=YES
I am a father for the first time with my wife… we adopted a baby girl. She was home 2 days and we went to a meeting of a Celtic group we belong to that meets in a local pub. We were met there by our friends, some who have children with them at the pub also. A pub is different from a bar. I would never bring my kid to a bar, but I would a pub. A pub is just different…..and by pub, I mean a family gathering place like the ones in Ireland where they are a hub of socializing for the whole community. Bars are places for adults only. If you wish to go to a bar then get a sitter, and go where just other adults are. If you wish to take the family, go where other families go….and still have a drink….just drive safe, and try to use good judgment.
Bars in Europe
Yes, I can enlighten you a bit on the scene in Europe. I lived there nearly five years in three different countries. Alcohol is served everywhere there at pubs and grocery store eating places; even in work lunchrooms at places like department stores, Hewlett-Packard and Seimans, which could never happen in America. People seem to know how to drink with sense in Europe. They drink with FOOD and don’t get drunk. They usually walk or take public transportation, so driving drunk isn’t an issue. In America people mostly drink to get drunk. That is the object of their visits.
A restaurant with a bar is different from a bar. The former is okay for the stroller set, the latter, most assuredly, is not.
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I’d have to agree somewhat with KJ. I look at America like it’s a teenager, reckless, and quick to take action without really thinking first, as Europe to me, I look at like it’s a wise old woman since they have been around longer than America. Someday America will grow up and be a wise old country.
Narrow Minds
Americans like to tell each other what they can and can’t do. If there is no law against it, they will either campaign for a law or, if that seems unlikely, decry the other person as irresponsible or immoral. Some people use this tactic about sex before marriage or burning a flag, some use it to deny others access to bars while with your child or deny any restaurant or bar the right to allow smoking in their establishment.
I think the real problem here is intolerance. While that often is a vice of conservatives, it is clear liberals are just as intolerant. Depriving parents of the right to socialize as they see fit is, at best, intrusive and rude.
A bar which posts a sign prohibiting children in strollers is certainly reasonable — they are considering their clientèle. But those people who know nothing of the actual situations and yet pontificate are examples of what is worst about this country.
DUI with children in tow
What if the parents have had too much to drink? When the parents are wasted and with their children and they drive home? Then what?
Drunk drivers cause most of the car accidents at night. Wasted teens aren’t the only ones crashing into other cars and veering into traffic. The drunk parents can run into another car and maybe even skid of the road and the car could be laying on its side with a seriously injured child or children inside because the parents chose to drink one too many beers.
The bartender should refuse to serve the parents who have their children in tow. If the parents refuse to leave then tell the parents to either call someone to pick up the kids or they are banned from the bar for a given amount of time.Untitled
Funny. I find people who throw around words such as “narrow minded”, “closed minded”, “ignorance”, and “intolerant” are themselves the words they point fingers at.
We are gossip mongers
Kina,
Your comment to me seems unkind. If the only people who can use such words as narrow minded and intolerant are those who possess said traits, then doesn’t that mean you are, too?
I assume you consider yourself fair minded. Please do not use over sweeping judgments to cut off other people’s opinions. You know nothing of me except one posting.
For the record, the people I called intolerant are the ones who are telling these women what kind of life they should lead, condemning them for allowing their children in a bar when it has been explained that the bar was also a sit-down restaurant which happens to serve alcohol.
I have actually re-thought my position. Postings like this blog are the modern equivalent of the village gossips whispering scandalous things about the people they don’t approve of. It is shameful that people behave this way (and I guess have always done so). And shame on me for having been drawn into this.
the heck with others!
What goes on in another country is not relevant to this issue. Other nations are getting more and more liberal as the years go by. I’m horrified at some of the practices in other parts of the world and I’m sick of people in America who wish we were more like them. If you don’t like this country, please feel free to leave.
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Interesting Herman out of all the posts that people have wrote on this topic you choose to say that I’m unkind, narrow-minded and intolerant. You and along with others have attacked ones personal judgment and insulted their right to choose,and thought it suiting to ostracize Americans and our preferences.
You can go back and read my posts, I never used words like you did in your post. I repeated those words you and others have used. And again you still use those same words when replying to my post. It has been my experience that people who use those “labels” they themselves are guilty of the same thing, if you want to have an adult conversation leave out the “labels” and deal with other people’s opinions. It builds character I happen to not mind the different opinions on these blogs I find I learn a lot about myself and others. Good luck Herman with your endeavor.
Kina?
Just for reference, Kina — my comments in the first post were not directed towards you. The system calls any addition to the blog a reply to the last posting whether it relates to that post or not. I was not calling you narrow minded (or any other descriptor) at any time.
You point about open discussion is reasonable. I just seem to find that too many people feel they know the answers when they don’t even understand the questions, and it bothers me sometimes.
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sighsYour comment in the first post WAS directed towards me. Me and other Americans. When you make comments about American’s guess what? You are offending any American citizens, sorry but that’s how it goes when you say things like how we like to tell everyone what we can and can’t do. Your comment WAS directed at me AND other fellow Americans.
I won’t make anymore comments to you about what you really meant or who you were really talking to, just admit it you offended someone, guess what it happens, I don’t particularly care since I’m aware we all have our different opinions which is what the site is for, sharing opinions.Okay
I admit that I offended some people, but certainly not all Americans! I’m an American (and sometimes proud of it), and I obviously did not take offense. Nor would my (American) friends and colleagues, many of whom (not all) agree with me.
Perhaps I should have avoided generalizing in my first post. I thought my meaning would be clear, but it wasn’t. I wasn’t criticizing Americans as an outsider — I was berating what I consider one of our serious flaws.
Anyway, I’m sorry to have offended you — it was not my intent. And I agree, let’s move on.
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Thank-you Edwin. :)
That's Crazy
I just can’t believe a mother would even consider taking her children into a bar where there is smoking and rowdy people. To me, that’s putting your children in danger. It should be against the law. It says NO ONE under the age of 21 and that should include children.
If you are going to be drinking while your children are around you should do at home after they are asleep or get a babysitter. I’m 20 and a single mom two kids and I know this. Since I am so young there are times when I would like to go out and have a good time without my children. But I’ve had a hard time being able to drink just for the fact that I feel guilty. I’m their mother. I’m the one who be taking care of them. What would what happen if I was drinking and they need me? I would not feel comfortable taking care of them even if I just had one. I am I the only one who feels this way.
I just don’t understand how a mother cannot feel ashamed of taking her kids into a bar. That’s not a place for kids if you feel you have no other chose but to take them to the bar. There is another choice: stay home taking care of your kids. Bars are always the same; your kids change so much you don’t want to look back and think what was I thinking when I did that.
How could I put them in harm’s way like that? Of course, there are moms who just don’t care and only think of themselves. I think they shouldn’t be moms.
We'll see...
I am a 31 year old mom to 4 year old boy/girl twins. My husband and I work opposite shifts to avoid paying for childcare. As a result of this, outside of work, I have almost NO adult companionship. A friend from work had a birthday shindig at a local pub awhile ago. My kids “went with mommy to Shirley Temple’s and ate cherries”. They were treated like royalty by my work friends. They got to pick songs on the jukebox, play the claw game, share everyone’s fries, and have a good time. Nobody from work (about 20 of us) had any issues with my kids being there. Others however, gave me the evil eye despite the fact that my kids were very well-behaved and I too was drinking Shirley Temples. Judge me if you find it necessary. I know I’m a damn good mom. I also know that my kids a slightly over-exposed to adult things because they are my best friends. I have learned to enjoy playgrounds, Drake and Josh, and Hannah Montana through my children. They likewise enjoy garage sales, Rock of Love, and Nickelback because of me. They start school this year. I’ll assess and do damage control as needed. I’m pretty sure they’ll be the good kids in the classroom who act like little lunatics on the playground. This works for me.
Not the case
As Shelli (above) explained, the bar in question was non-smoking and non-rowdy. It was (to quote her words), “more like a restaurant that serves alcohol.”
I think always waiting until your kids are asleep or at a babysitter to drink sets a poor example. Drinking in moderation is not evil or immoral. Hiding our drinking from our kids tells them it’s something that we are ashamed of.
I would never advocate getting wasted in front of my kids, but teaching them that it’s okay to drink ONE beer or ONE glass of wine (when they’re older) helps teach them how to drink sensibly.
And telling moms they should always stay at home with their kids isolates them and isn’t really fair. It may work for you, but cutting 100% of a person’s social life away doesn’t work for most people.
We are better parents when we occasionally pay attention to our own needs, too.
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Who said that moms have to “always” stay at home? Just because someone is a SAHM (or not ) doesn’t mean we are being oppressed or being held down by the opposite sex. If a woman wants to have a social life she can go find a baby-sitter/ hubby watch her children while she can have a break. Maybe most don’t realize when you have kids your social life significantly changes. It happens, by this point when you have children your priorities shift towards another direction. Doesn’t mean she’s prude or is being oppressed it just means a woman is being a woman, she’s decided to be nurturing to her children since she did carry them for 9mos. and gave birth to them, something no man will ever understand, like I said priorities shift. Personally I don’t think children should be in a bar.
As someone who used to go to the bars as a young 20 year old, I would be shocked to see babies or children in a bar. In general there are a couple things that people have in mind when at bars, that is to drink, and hook up with the opposite sex. Why would anyone want their child to be exposed to a couple of horny 20 year olds bumping and grinding on each other? Not to mention the clouds of smoke from cigarettes and loud music.
Now a family setting restaurant there’s nothing wrong in my opinion having a drink. It wouldn’t bother me to have my children see me drink wine or one beer every now and again. It’s the other stuff that comes with bars that I wouldn’t want children to learn about not the fact they serve alcohol but the OTHER crap that goes on.Untitled
I think the mothers of the babies should have stayed home if they couldn’t find a babysitter. They could of gotten kidnapped if the mother got too drunk to even notice or hurt if the mothers drove home drunk.
Take into consideration
People, please stop to think that mom’s will have a glass of wine and if they do so while taking care of their children all the better, because who better to care for a child than its parents. Go to any European country and you will find children at the bar with their parents, either in a stroller or sitting on their butts. No, life isn’t the same after you have children, but it also doesn’t stop. Social gathering and 1 drink or 2 is actually very good for the mom and if its good for the mom its good for the child. If momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy as the bumper stickers say. The only thing wrong with a mother bringing a child into the bar is if the mother is getting drunk (which having one or 2 drinks does NOT equal getting drunk, for most), the bar is smoky, or the environment is just wrong for a child/child is unhappy. But, if its one or 2 drinks with some friends and alert, attentive mothers who should be able to tell them no? Would you go to their home and tell them not to have one glass of wine or even judge them for it? Now whats wrong with getting out of the house and having friends? These things do not equal not being a good parent.
Also take into consideration...
…the children please! Sorry I can’t go for this at all. As has been said multiple times here – your life changes when kids come into it, you CAN’T be just the way you were before. And also, sorry, but I could care less how mothers in Europe are raising their kids – the state of some of those countries leads me to believe I’m not surprised how they’re turning out. And guess what – this is coming from a childless (let’s say child-free), middle aged male. I decided not to raise kids, but I’m sure glad there are those who do.
I'm sorry, but...
I’m sorry EKAT but I do not care about European countries and what THEY do and I think a lot of other people on this post do not care either.
Second “SOCIAL GATHERING” for mothers shouldn’t be confined to the bars. C’mon it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out there are other ways to have a healthy and responsible social life.
Third, “what is good for momma is good for the child” is BS and not at all even logical. My momma thought it was “good” for her to abandon my sister and I just so she could have a “social” life. Sorry that excuse of a phrase doesn’t cut it.
Fourth,fifth,sixth so on so forth….smoking environment is bad, second hand smoke you know it’s been proven to be just as bad or worse than actually smoking, loud decibels (music in case you don’t know) if also NOT good for a child’s sensitive ears.
And kudos to Tim and his response.