Posted on April 4, 2008 by Kathy McManus in All, Education, Media, Parenting Comments (131)
Attack of the 3rd-Graders?
The shocking headlines out of Waycross, Georgia— 3rd-graders plotted to attack teacher, brought knife, handcuffs —lowered the bar on school violence and raised the alarm among parents, teachers, psychologists and just about anyone with an opinion about the country’s future.
The third grade plotters—nine students between the ages of 8 and 10—were allegedly readying a revenge assault against a teacher who had given one of the children a time-out for standing on a chair.
Tipped off by a student, police seized the kids’ menacing arsenal at school, including a steak knife, duct tape, handcuffs, and a heavy paperweight. The teacher specialized in learning disabilities, including attention deficit disorder and hyperactivity, though it’s not known if any of the plotters had those diagnoses.
The sophistication of the plan—with kid-assigned jobs of covering classroom windows and cleaning up after the attack—stunned even the police.
“We did not hear anybody say they intended to kill her,” the police chief said, “but could they have accidentally killed her? Absolutely.”
The big question—who or what was responsible for the children’s shocking behavior?—was debated across the U.S. on message boards and Main Street.
The culprits ranged from peer pressure to parenting, with violent video games and television getting much of the blame. “Kids naturally think now that the solution to everything is to shoot someone like they see on TV,” one comment read. “I weep for the future of America.”
For the present, local authorities are uncertain exactly how to proceed. In Georgia, children under 13 can’t be charged with a crime. Being declared “delinquent” by a judge may be the only legal penalty, but the state doesn’t have detention facilities for third-graders.
Tell us what you think. Given the restrictions with the law, how do you make punishment for third graders fit the crime? How much responsibility do their parents bear? And what about the rest of us—should we also be accountable as members of society?
Comments (131)
Skip comments
combination
I think the fault here lies mostly with the parents. We are programed by the environment that we are raised in. It’s up to the parents what kids are exposed to at an early age: TV, video games, movies, music, the other kids they are allowed to play with, etc.The news media over reports on school violence. Parents are ultimately responsible.
Not so sure...
I don’t think society and violence in tv and games can really play such a large part here. When you’re that young, you experience intense emotions, and you’re not always sure what to do with them. As a young child I was kept from TV and video games and movies of all kinds. Yet when adults in my life were “unfair” I often fantasized of hurting them back. I’ve grown and changed a lot since then, and learned that retribution is not the answer. I think these kids should definitely get some help — someone to help them recognize and deal with emotions in a healthy way.
I think the kids should be removed from that teacher’s classroom, and split up if possible. They should have to do some sort of community service and some sort of therapy. Rather than detracting from society (plotting to kill a teacher) they need to learn to contribute.
I actually feel more for the kids — how angry and frustrated they must have felt, and that they felt they had noone to turn to. They had to feel so powerless, and this was one thing they COULD do. Parents and authority figures need to teach them alternatives and respect for authority (even if we don’t agree).
And noone said… KUDOS to the kid who reported the group. Did that kid get rewarded for doing the right thing despite the pressure the other kids would have put on him?
Yes, Community Service...
I think you’re absolutely right about community service…
Suspending the children doesn’t teach them anything (except maybe teaching them that acting badly lets them off the hook from schoolwork); juvenile hall wouldn’t teaching them anything (except how to be a better criminal by hanging out with other criminals).
Community service for the teacher may teach them something. Maybe they should come to school early every morning to wash faculty cars or paint over some tagging or pick some weeds for a month would be good ideas.
I also think the parents of the children should come with the child as he/she offers a long letter of apology and what they plan on doing to make up for their stupidity. Looking someone in the eye as you apologize really does something for our integrity, does it not?
Letter of Apology
When I was in high school I behaved particularly abominably to one teacher — not to the extent as these young children, but still… I’m not proud of my behavior. My parents made me write a letter of apology and read it to the teacher so I wouldn’t forget what I wanted to say.
And you’re right. Looking that teacher in the eye and apologizing — reading my wrongs out loud and asking to make amends — it changed me. And I haven’t treated anyone like that since. I think twice. :D
3rd grade punishment
Famiily therapy for all, especially the parents of these children and adults Dr.LAura would be my first stop.
All should take a slice of the responsibility pie
As I see it, all of the adults, parents, school administrator(s) and the teacher should receive the biggest slices of this pie, as they all have failed to take responsibility to provide guidance to this classroom of students.
Yes, the students do deserve a slice of the pie as well, as they are the ones who hatched the plot and then decided to act upon it. So, they must suffer some form of consequences for their choice of behavior so that they learn that just because you think of doing something does not mean you have to act upon it, AND, if you do choose to act upon the thought, you MUST suffer the consequences for the choice.
Now, the parents dropped the ball in not making a point of zeroing in on their own child’s feelings that I am certain they were telegraphing to them. The teacher, I am certain, knew or sensed that she had unhappy students, (I can say this with certainty as I am a retired classroom teacher), and once she sensed there was a problem brewing, she could have sat down with her students to investigate what they ‘thought’ the problem was. Nine year olds in general are not at a level of maturity to discuss things of a feeling nature, this is an abstract thinking ability that is beyond nine year olds.
And finally the administration failed because they should have been observing the classroom on a regular basis so as to have the ‘pulse’ of the classroom.
I do not agree that therapy for the children is necessary here, but rather the teacher as she obviously has some deep seated issues that a therapist could help her come to grips with.
I do agree though with the responder who said the young boy who brought this to other adults attention deserves a round of applause and a pat on the back.
Untitled
I concur!
It's just gonna get worse B-4 better(if ever)
I believe the world is just gonna get worse no matter what we try to do. I don’t think we will ever be able to ban violence on t.v. or that parents will ever be responsible enough to set parental controls on t.v.s or even stop buying violent video games. My 3rd grade son got beat up by a classmate while a 5th grader my size(5ft5 120 lbs)held him down, afterward they threatened to kill him. It was all because my son was walking a popular girl home.I had them both arrested at the school and the judge ordered a letter of apology to be written. I believe it helped a lot because my son and the other 3rd grader are now friends. The 5th grader hates my son even more now for us calling the cops but we do feel alot safer knowing that everyones aware of the situation. I believe that making them face the consequences publicly helps them to see others reactions to what they have done and in turn helps them to realize what they did is wrong. Also apology letters and counseling would work wonders for everyone.
Many options...
I have a 3rd grader and he and his friends are SO impressionable. I am sure the main planning in this incident was the doing of one or two crafty students and the others were simply followers.
I think the letters of apology and community service are good ideas, but because of how impressionable these kids are, a scared straight approach might be the way to go too.
Have the children “arrested” and talked to by the police. Take them to a facility where kids are detained and let them see how they live. It might put enough fear in them to keep them from future troubles.
If It Were My Kid
First of all, I’d ask him/her what the teacher had done that was so upsetting to him/her. Next, I would acknowledge his/her feelings. Then, I would try to explain how the teacher was feeling during the situation. After that, I would ask my child to write an essay detailing every reason that his/her behavior was unacceptable. More over, I would strip my child’s room down to nothing but a bed without sheets and a pillow without a pillowcase and I would ground him/her to her room for three days, only allowing him/her out to bathe, get ready for school, to eat meals with the family and a one hour sanity break to do whatever. No tv, no telephone and no friends until further notice.
Teaching a lesson
I am a substitute teacher. At times it is necessary to discipline the students. The prescribed punishment is usually time out of recess or occasionally a visit to the office for a firm talking to. A teacher should not be in fear of violent retaliation because of a stern tone and a time out.
I do believe that it is the parents’ failure that we are talking about. Children learn behaviors from parents (T.V., games and movies do not raise children). It is like osmosis. A child will likely take on the parents behaviors and attitudes toward life and situations. It is of the utmost importance that we teach our children to be responsible for their actions, that is why disciplinary measures are needed (when deserved).
I suggest long-term counseling and observation for the children. And I would also suggest that these parents pay more attention to the attitudes and actions of their child. If they are contemplating violent hostage situations at 8 years old, what happens when they are 18?
Murder? Parents Teach your children!
Hello? These kids are ONLY 8!!!
These kids are 8 and 9 years old, with developmental delays and behavioral problems. I really believe that MOST of them really had real understanding of what they had signed up for. That being said, some sort of consequence is totally appropriate. Community service is a great start, and and a formal apology to the teacher and school is a no-brainer. And of course THE PARENTS need to be involved. Seems like they all need counseling and this is a huge wake up call that the child(ren) who came with this idea need some hard core interventions before they grow up to be the next kid that shoots up their high school, college, or even middle school!
Exactly what was predicted in JESUS WAS A TERRORIS
For those of you that have seen the film JESUS WAS A TERRORIST – this type of thing happening in real life is EMBARASSING. I initially wrote an angry letter to the producers of that movie, and now I feel like I have my tail between my legs.
How can you discipline these kids? In IL you’re not even allowed to pat kids on the back or buckle their seatbelts on the bus because of new overprotective sexual abuse rules (I think we let the kids watch too much MSNBC, and now they cry abuse whenever they don’t get their way) – how can you discipline them when we’ve given them all the power!?
Shaping little souls
This sad little news account reflects the on-going diminution of real parenting in this country. I agree with Mr. Tattrie’s response, that ultimately the parents are responsible. The choice to bring a child into the world comes with vast consequences and responsibilities. One should weigh them carefully. Manners must be taught. The television should be banished in favor of books, art and outdoor experiences. We are shaping little souls, setting the groundwork for a lifetime. So many parents fund those college accounts but fail to realize the most important years are the early ones. There will always be contributing factors, but they should not cloud us from our ultimate responsibility..the hard work of shaping these little souls.
Lessons
I am currently in college to become an elementary school teacher. My main goal is to teach third graders. This story shocked me. I believe many are correct in the forms of discipline that should be used. Community service and a letter of apology are really excellent ideals. Therapy is an excellent ideal for all the parties involved. Many go into the field of teaching to help children. The teacher must have been in shock, to find out the young minds she had hoped to mold wanted her dead. From what I gather this incident was because of a child being disciplined. Something has to be done about the growing epidemic amongst our schools but what.
Untitled
We need to dump the U.S. Dept of Education once and for all, admitting that government indoctrination centers are a failure, in the context of a constitutional republic. Americans need to take back responsibility for their education and that of their children by removing that responsibility from government bureaucrats who have an agenda of their own. ALL children have an innate Love of Learning that too often in today societal makeup we destroy with the concept of ‘one size fits all’ and the nonsensical ‘self esteem/every child is equal’ educational concept. Wake up America and and take back a responsibility that is YOURS, that of educating YOUR child(ren).
Then and only then will we cease to see violence of this nature within young children who now have instilled within them a Hate of Learning attitude.
Real Life
Are any of our children living in reality? We don’t want them to see or experience anything unpleasant or ugly yet we buy them things that create chaos, destruction, and death. Have your children ever seen a dead person? Or have we “sheltered” them from the funerals and such that teach us about precious life. Do they get everything for free? In life I learned early nothing is free, not even your actions. I think all the P.C. parenting has gone to the extreme, What ever happened to combination therapy. A little old with a little new. Let your children see and live real life, not the one you want to live for them. you’re not them. You have no idea how it must be to grow up in this new world, so much all the time. Whatever happened to just sitting in the back yard with your brother, some dirt and stick? I think maybe we should give our children’s imaginations a chance to bloom rather than another new video game or Disney movie. Just say no more TV, no more computers go play with your kids outside. This may help with A.D.D. and obesity; it’s called exercise and family time. Thank you concerned adult.
who's to blame???
So who is really to blame here? Video games, violence in the media, bad parenting skills? I am sure that this attributed in some ways to encourage them in the act. Parents refuse to discipline their children- and therefore, they respect no one. But the bottom line here is SIN. The story that comes to mind in the bible is Cain and Able. Genesis 4. Abel brought an offering before the Lord and the Lord respected his offering. But he did not respect Cain’s offering. His countenance fell, and he became angry. So what did he do?
v6 So the Lord said to Cain, “why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Now Cain talked with Abel his brother, and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
Cain became jealous and angry and he killed his brother. Can we blame this on the culture? Well, what culture? There were only 4 people on the earth at the time including himself! Can we blame the media? Nope, there was no media then. There was no “government”. There were no peers to influence him. In fact, the only counsel he received was from the Lord and the Lord told him to rule over his sinful desires. He chose to kill his brother on his own. Sin was crouching at the door, and Cain let it in. He gave into his jealousy and anger- and it grew. And he murdered. Period.
The same thing can be said for these kids. Remove the media, remove the peers, remove the administration, the government, and the parents. What is left? These kids and their own sinful nature. Thankfully, the plan was leaked out to another teacher, and they were stopped before they could harm the teacher. So there is talk about community service (woopidie doo- attempt to kill your teacher and you have to pick up trash off the side of the road in an orange vest) and making them apologize for their actions because our judicial system is not set up for children. It seems to me that we should have something in place for this kind of thing, since the violence in young people seems to start earlier and earlier- maybe this is a wake-up call to our government that depravity doesn’t begin in a teenager. Maybe even a wake up call to our nation, if they will just put the blame where it is due. This is a fallen world we live in. Sin is bound up in all of our hearts. Cleaner media, better parents, more understanding teachers will not fix that. If it were that easy, Christ would not have hung on the cross.
Shocked?
I don’t understand why people are “shocked” about what these kids plotted to do. This sort of thing has been going on for as long as humans have been on the planet. Society can be looked at a bit, but is human nature that is a t work here…“civilized” society has developed many rules and laws to govern human behavior. We are naturally aggressive, predatory and find safety in numbers. Just because these kids are young doesn’t mean that several million years of evolutionary and instinctual survival mechanisms aren’t at play here…So it seems fairly “natural” that these kids planned an attack on a teacher that either real or imagined was a threat to the “pack”
Untitled
“We need to dump the U.S. Dept of Education once and for all, admitting that government indoctrination centers are a failure, in the context of a constitutional republic. Americans need to take back responsibility for their education and that of their children by removing that responsibility from government bureaucrats who have an agenda of their own. ALL children have an innate Love of Learning that too often in today societal makeup we destroy with the concept of ‘one size fits all’ and the nonsensical ‘self esteem/every child is equal’ educational concept. Wake up America and and take back a responsibility that is YOURS, that of educating YOUR child(ren).
Then and only then will we cease to see violence of this nature within young children who now have instilled within them a Hate of Learning attitude.” Rori…I applaud you…it’s about time someone said it.
We don't respect kids
I so agree with Rori. We all have failed and the society we have created is making it impossible to change. The education system is broke. It is not in tune with our new world. The system was set to provide workers for assembly lines. That type of work hardly exists any more. We don’t need to demonize TV, teacher, games, or violent movies. We need to be on top of what is happening with our loved ones and the guy down the street. The answer is, yes, we are our brother’s keeper. It’s wrong to respond to a report of misbehavior of our children by saying “OH, no my son/daughter wouldn’t do that.” Oh, yes they would unless we teach them other wise. Our society needs to make it possible for one parent to stay home and if that one is the male member he shouldn’t have to feel ridiculed. If it’s the female she shouldn’t have to feel financially in jeopardy. How to do that? I have some ideas but to even try to implement them would have almost 100% of the affected people screaming in protest. Along with working with children, I have learned to work with animals, specifically dogs and horses. You have three seconds to correct their behavior and no more. Once it’s over it’s over. If we treated other human beings like that the anger management people would probably go out of business. We encourage grudges when we over discipline or if we don’t discipline consistently and carefully. When I was growing up, if the teacher said I’d done something wrong I faced the music at home. Now days mom and dad run out and get a lawyer. That’s part of the problem in many schools today. Any one interested in how populations react when they are crowded should talk to social psychologists who can direct you to a study of rats. We pack to many children together in a small space and expect them to perform under extreme environmental stress while they try to learn. That might make me stand on a chair too.
Why blame the parents?
First off, as parents of a child with developmental delays (autistic) we realize many of us give our children the proper love and care that they need. Many of us, depending on what the child has been diagnosed with, go through a lot of stress on our own paying for such things as therapy (psychological, physical, occupational, and behavioral) because our insurance companies do not cover it. So most of us are working hundreds of hours a year just go be able to cover those expenses. I thought that special education classes in schools were one teacher per 4-5 students and a therapist or a helper for these children. At least it is like that where I live. The problem is that the schools and parents do not work together and most teachers do not care about the well being of their student or whether they learn anything. At least that was my experience growing up with a brother who had ADHD and his teachers were worthless. Even when parents show attention and love to their children developmentally delayed or not, some children still go way off into left field. For those who blamed the parents: do any of you have a child who has developmental disabilities? If so, then you know how difficult it can be sometimes to raise them – especially in my case where my son cannot even communicate with me or his father the way that he should. Also, none of you have met the parents of these children so how would you know if they did or didn’t do what they needed to do in order to make sure that their children behaved? How do you think they feel about the incident that has happened? You all have to look at that before you start saying that the parents are to blame.
Reply To Sarah
Sarah, while I agree that parents are not to blame, you are clearly taking this personally. You talk about special education children, but these WEREN’T special education children! The reason there wasn’t one teacher for four to five wasn’t because they were neglecting the needs of children with development disabilities, but because the children HAD NO DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES. In fact, it mentions the sophistication of the plan, which autistic children would not manage.
Now, then, I don’t feel parents are to blame because I find it hard to believe that there are 30-60 parents who have so badly abused the minds of their third-graders. There probably is a societal factor to it, both in the media promoting violence and in American culture promoting selfishness. A major reason for their terrible plan was simply that they resented being punished.
I, too, weep for the future of America.
It's the parents.
How can you simple minded people not blame it on the parents?
Yes, the video games are most likely where they got the ideas. Yes, that’s why they wanted to murder their teacher, or torture her, or whatever their intentions. But, WHY did the video games influence them this way?
People are molded by their influences. People are born with certain characteristics, but these develop and evolve only through influence. So, it is safe to assume that the parents are at fault for not keeping a tighter leash on their children and not teaching them stronger morals and ethics.
That’s weak, people. The parents are at fault here. I’ve been playing violent video games my entire life, but I’ve never done anything close to this. I’ve never even killed an animal. It’s the parent’s fault for keeping such a loose leash on them.
You say that you fear for the future of America? And what do you think is molding the future of America? The youth, most certainly, but look what’s molding the youth: the parents. Look at the level of morals and ethics in the 50’s. What happened? Why doesn’t anyone act that way anymore?
Because, over time, children got lazy, stopped caring about rules, and passed it on to their children. And so the pattern continues. And now, you blame the video game for everything. You say the parents are innocent.
Love and care are not all that children need. Children need teaching, discipline, a good role model, knowledge, morals, and common sense. Obviously blinded people like you think that it’s all the video game.
Even if it were all the video game, who’s controlling how much television or video games that child watches and plays? It’s THE PARENT.
The parents are all to blame.
It’s pathetic, people. You tiptoe around the subject and take something that MIGHT be the cause, something that isn’t even proven, and blame that. Rather than going to the direct source of the matter, you say, “Nuh-uh, it couldn’t possibly be the parent! We aren’t doing anything wrong!”
I think it’s high time that parents look inward for the blame.
Note to Dude
I think to blame or hold the parents responsible we need more information. I must admit that my children have done things that I have actively taught and reinforced them not to do. They have always, yes always, done these thing when they thought I wouldn’t find out. It takes a village to raise a child. I would find out because someone else finally reported to me. All of my children are now 18 and older and only one has continued to be self destructive. The others have become soldiers, nurses, teachers. Should I be blamed because in spit of my efforts the one child has basically failed in society?
I believe we as a society are to quick to blame parents and teachers because we don’t want to look at the structure we are struggling against. If our kids were expected to help the family with basic home skills, do their homework, and contribute to the community. They wouldn’t have time to hold grudges and plot attacks.
Untitled
To That One Dude! Awesome! I don’t know how old you are from my assumption you seem to be young if you are congratulations on the most mature young person that I’ve ever met if your not a young person well I still applaud you. People lose sight on who is rearing these children and forget where children learn their actions from the most.
Also a Note To Dude
First, I’m not a parent, so that argument doesn’t really hold.
Second, ethics during the fifties included the idea that a female’s prime purpose in life was to be a housewife, so good luck passing that off as the era of morals.
However, in your mention of era, you ironically brought up my point. There is violence EVERYWHERE right now (which is not to say it wasn’t there before.) If every single violent act is the fault of the parents, that means there are millions of unfit parents. Furthermore, does it not mean that these parents also were badly raised?
I do not say parents are innocent or blame the video game. I’m sure some do, but since you chose to attack everyone who disagrees with you and label them “simple-minded,” I would say that alone also negates much of your argument.
I’m sure the parents deserve some of the blame. I’m also sure society deserves more. You may think that makes me simple-minded, but that in turn makes me consider you narrow-minded. And I don’t blame your parents for that.
Surrogate Generation - Television and Video Parent
Children become who they spend the most time with. If they are not spending most of their waking hours with their parents who then are raising them? Children are acting like their surrogate parents, which are t.v., videos, peers, movies etc. Read the newly released book “Surrogate Generation” to find more facts about this problem that effects our homes, schools and society. We are letting surrogates raise our children, but at what cost? This is why children are behaving as they do.
My response to Dude
First off thank you for considering my opinion to be simple minded. First off are you there with these parents 24-7? Not every parent is perfect but let me tell you one thing not all parents are lax on what their children do. Many of them teach their children right from wrong and sometimes those same children go off into left field. It happens and you also mention the violence of video games, television, and movies. Well its like this not every child does what a video game, television show, song, or movie does at all. Some kids to follow that and its a sad situation. This particular story was on my local news as I live in the same region as this terrible crime happened. They said that these children had developmental disabilities. Meaning it could be a number of things from social to communication to many other issues that they face daily. Is that the fault of the parent? No the child was born that way. Should they treat the child any differently because of it? No we are all equal in our own right.The point is that they probably do not understand what is going on. Even those without these issues are not always going to follow what their parents teach them. The teacher was having an issue with a particular student, talk to the parents. That is what we are missing is communication between the parents and the schools. If they all work together then maybe things like this wouldn’t happen so often. So before I congratulate you on your ignorance, I am going to give you some advice; don’t point your finger until you know ALL the facts. Have a great evening:-)
okay....
Okay, so no one agrees on who is actually at fault here…and we can debate about that all day long – BUT something needs to be said about the fact that our government has nothing in place to punish kids who act out like this- other than kicking them out of school and giving them community service. Why not? I would have thought after Columbine we would have some kind of “juvenile” system set up. I realize this is the first time this has happened with children this young, but we are a foolish nation if just slapped on the wrists and this happens to us again-
I don’t see it getting any better. It just seems as though our youth are acting out violently younger and younger. So what in the world can they do about it? What kind of punishment seems fair? I mean at least some kind of boot camp or confinement away for a time. Yes, they are children, but they certainly are not acting like it. Disabilities or not, they have to own up to their own mistakes. They have to know how to function in society and learn what is acceptable or not. Better teach them now while there is still hope!
Reply to Sarah (top) / Sophia (very bottom)
I applaud your incessant use of self-righteousness. And your horrible use of grammar. Language and writing represents the way you think, and it is obvious to the reader that your thought process is cloudy and vague.
Perhaps you are right in that parents teach their children right from wrong. But, from my experience as a professional teenager, it’s more often that the parent fails to understand that the child has a different personality, and although they are influenced by the parent and possess similar characteristics to the parent, the child still has a separate point of view. Simplified for you: the parent thinks that they have cleared up and enforced the differences in right and wrong, but such is not so from the child’s eyes.
Most parents of my parents’ generation are very, very lazy. They don’t care to enforce anything upon their children, and as a result the child becomes lazy and recessive in their views of ethical workings. They don’t care about what the parents say, because what’re they going to do? Ground you?
All that the youth of America cares about is when they get to go to their next concert, when do they get their next cellphone, etcetera. It’s such a self-serving world that most of us teenagers live in. True, this is hard to resist with new technologies at our fingertips, but the reason that most people can’t resist it is the way they were raised. With loose morals, and lazy habits. At this point in their life it’s almost impossible to expect someone to change themselves to stop what’s steadily happening to the way us lazy Americans are. So, the youth of America, which is what drives the future of America, relies entirely upon the teaching of the parents. But, as the teaching grows worse and worse, so do the children, and when they become parents themselves, so do their children, and on and on and on.
You see, I’m trying to bring a bigger concept into the picture: The general degradation of America. There is a plethora of causes to this, but the effects are obvious: lazy parents that breed lazier children (the chain never stops, either), a lax grip on morals, and what I like to refer to as, “Princess Syndrome”.
Honestly, I wish all parents of that generation were like mine. My parents raised me with an iron fist. If I did something wrong, the pain in the side of my head informed me of such. Old-fashioned? Yes. But, child abuse? No. I deserved every blow I received. And through this, a perception of what is right and wrong was eventually cemented into my being.
Many people still fail to understand what I previously mentioned about the difference in perception. Parents need to understand that their children do not understand things the same way they do, that the children will not think the same things that that the parent does when something is said. Not many people will adapt for the purpose of learning, most people do not have the willpower to change themselves in such a radical fashion. So, it is the parent we rely on to change their personal teaching method to suit the learner.
But, in all reality, none of this pertains to this particular case. Because I did not realize that these kids had learning disabilities.
So, I am wrong. And all of this is useless opinionated information that is merely a long tangent largely unrelated to the subject of debate.
And, as a reply to Sophia, I was not specific in what I said; I suppose I should have specified that I was talking to Sarah when I was said all the things I did. I did not mean to say that everyone here is simplistic in their views of life.
Entitlement
I wanted to add that in addition to the media influence, peer pressure, and lack of parental guidance, there’s also a problem with an entitlement mentality in the last generation or so… This is a fast food society; We want what we want, when we want it, how we want it and we want it now. Kids expect a car before they get their learners’ permit, a cell phone NOW, and good grades without working because they all think they’re geniuses because we all say ‘good job’ even when they don’t do a good job because it’s politically incorrect to ‘hurt their feelings’. These kids can’t stand to have someone in their class say they don’t like them so they will do anything to get acceptance from a ‘cool kid’ even when they are being pressured to do something wrong.
Untitled
Awesome Joyce, our society has become a society of instant gratification. 15 years ago I was a teen and lived on a farm. I got up before the rooster crowed and was in bed before 10:00pm with homework done. Later, on game nights, on the weekends, I worked at a nearby restaurant and paid for my own car, cell phone, clothing and anything. I opened up my checking account as well as learned to balance a check book. At the time I didn’t like the fact my parents had me do all this throughout HS, but now I understand. I learned A LOT about responsibility and I’m sooo thankful my parents encouraged me to work hard. Note: I said encouraged, not forced, for those who will misread that sentence. The only reason That One Dude is getting negative feedback for what he said in his post, is because most know he’s right. And if this guy is a young person what better person to give advice on what this subject is about than someone who is well, younger, someone who sees more than adults what needs to be done, of course, assuming he is a young person. Anyhow, thanks That One Dude and Joyce, for your posts.
One child's opinion
I think that Rori Morrow had a good point, that everyone should take some responsibility. I also think that video games had no part in this. I mean, come on, video games? I and my friends play them all the time and we don’t go around assaulting teachers. The main problem is that the kids just need a strong sense of what they do and the consequences of their actions. I got into trouble a lot because I didn’t know how serious my actions were.
Agreed...
I agree entirely with Joyce and Kina. Joyce, you said half of what I was trying to say, thanks for finding the words for me.
Kina, yes, I am a younger person; age sixteen.
Nature + Nurture
Yes, people are born with innate desires and tendencies. However, they are also influenced by society. It’s called nature vs. nurture, and is a core concept in psychology.
Now, let’s see, what is the big deal right now about what’s going on in the media…oh yes, we are at war!! We have been for a while now. Also, the glorification of our involvement in war is impressed upon our children constantly. I’m not saying us being in Iraq is wrong or right, but killing people is basically accepted as normal by the media (to an 8 year old), which is probably seen by all of these children on every nightly news report. How is an 8 year old supposed to recognize that it is “ok” to kill someone as long as they are “threatening” us (as a country), but it is not ok to kill your teacher, despite the fact that they are threatening them with punishment?
I think that the problem here is the lack of education of violence. It is not touched on anywhere accept the home, where the parents are expected to teach this, which, obviously, is rarely done. How about maybe some martial arts lessons? That will teach an 8 year old that it hurts to hit people, as well as how much it hurts other people, in a controlled environment.
Untitled
Ahh..thanks That One Dude, I’m glad there are young people who have a good head on their shoulders. I hope you can teach your peers by example to do the same. And to REL.X;POL PARX thanks to you brought up a good point about violence, I keep thinking that terrorists are horrible because they are groomed since birth about violence when we are doing the same thing over here except I think we are not as extreme as the terrorists. But you your bring up a good point. I now understand what my husband is talking about in regards to gun control. I’m against it but he says that he was taught very young to use a gun but to treat it respectfully and was taught how to be responsible. I don’t know if that’s the identical to what you were getting at but that’s the first thing I thought of. As a mother letting my child handle a gun for recreation makes me nervous, but I remember as teen using a gun and hunting with my dad. Maybe it depends on the child’s personality as well.
Untitled
Another note: bows before TOD
Teach me the ways of proper grammar That One Dude! 30 years old and I still get it all wrong. :)
Guns
I don’t think children should be using guns. If the third graders had been exposed to guns at a young age, they might have tried to shoot the teacher instead of stabbing her. Children are not ready for the responsibility of people’s lives.
Untitled
Charlie, my father, locked up the guns we had in his room. He also taught us how to respect life, respect the gun and treat it as it is: a dangerous weapon. We never glorified guns like the way kids do now days, playing gang wars outside our apartment building. These kids, ages 6 to 12, will shoot someone someday because they glorify gang’s wars.
I have three brothers and none of us have EVER turned a gun on anyone. There’s nothing wrong with gun use in recreational and controlled environments, such as a shooting range, as long as there is a responsible parent there with them. I really mean a “responsible parent” – not all parents are responsible. These kids that tried to kill their teacher certainly should not be allowed to handle a gun or ANY form of weapon. Obviously they don’t respect life, even if they didn’t intend to harm the teacher. I think that’s a given – moving on since this article isn’t about gun control.
Spare the rod; spoil the child
I can’t believe, after reading all the blogs associated with this article, that no one advocated corporal punishment.
Forget community service! These children should be sentenced to writing a letter of apology to the teacher; then the parents of these children should be made to publicly spank them!
video games & TV
The last time I checked there hadn’t been a single study that proved that violence on TV and in video games contributes to delinquent behavior. Seriously, when you look at the MILLIONS of children AND adults who frequently play video games and watch TV you’ll find that an extremely small percentage of them act out in violent ways. The responsibility here belongs to the parents. Parent’s have to insure that their children know the difference between games and real life. Parent’s have to SHOW their children how to behave responsibly. I can remember playing Cowboys and Indians with the neighborhood kids; we had fake guns and captured each other, but that never made me go out and shoot someone. I always had an extremely active imagination, but I always knew the difference between real and make-believe.
It’s not a teacher’s responsibility to raise students; they only spend a few hours a day with the children. I mean how did the one child manage to bring a steak knife from home? That can’t possibly be the teacher’s fault! Parent’s need to know what their kids are up to! Seriously there should be a test perspective parents need to take to insure that they’re fit to raise children!
Reality
This is not just a family problem or educational problem, but a societal problem. Far too many will blame everyone but the kids. Most parents would threaten a lawsuit for almost any type of consequence. Most parents do not have a clue about what their kids are doing. The kids need to be held accountable. IF they do not learn NOW that actions have consequences, then they probably never will.
LD kids are not stupid, they are bright. They just have an IQ that is higher than what their classwork shows.
Personal accountability is not a part of the national school curriculum. As an educator, I could share horror stories. Bottom line, parents, educators are tired of doing your job. Teach your kids responsibilities, and that disappointments are a part of life. No body wins all the time. In order for there to be winners somebody has to lose. Learn from losing, and not winning. Learn from mistakes. Sometimes it is my fault. And yes many times it is your fault.
Once one recognizes their own accountability and responsibility change can be made. Until that happens, it will always be somebody else’s fault.
Accountability
It’s time people stop expecting schools and the powers that be to teach their kids about life choices. Parents are responsible for what their kids do. Especially what their 3rd graders do. Not video games or TV. It’s about time they sat down, took a look at themselves and said, “Mea Culpa”.
children are a product...
of their parents’ raising. But when kids spend most of their time at school and in front of a TV, those places take a large part in their raising as well. A child reflects what it is molded to be. However, school and TV doesn’t have to have such a great effect on children if their parents would offset it more. I know that I was raised well. Even before my father was a Christian, they took special care to mold in me good moral strength. They taught me that family was the most important relationship, they taught me respect for adults and for myself. Most importantly, they taught me that there were consequences for my actions. I believe that is where we are failing our future the most. There doesn’t seem to be a consequence for our actions. Children aren’t spanked, and hell isn’t real anymore. So why should any one be good if being bad doesn’t bring punishment?
These kids should be punished, but I also feel like a strong message needs to be sent to all of society that we need to stop letting kids be the boss, and take control until they are able to fill our shoes. As each generation is coddled and spoiled just a little more, the world will continue to come apart at the seams. There will be no laws, no punishment, and no order. God should be placed back into His rightful place of reverence and respect. Who else should decide what is right and wrong? 3rd graders?
No child is perfect
As parents we like to believe our kids are not in this category.But we have to realize our kids are not perfect they are being molded and shaped by their friends,teachers and parents, and it is up to us as parents to be there and really listen to whats going on.We love our children and want what is truly best for them, but there comes a time to make them accountable for their actions and harsh words. When parents don’t see that their child truly did something hurtful and evil to another student, that child will continue to conduct in a way of violence until its too late.Wake up parents see that our kids need guidance everyday, with love and respect to others and take responsibility for your own child instead of blaming the teachers or their peers. Our children need us more than ever, and we have to take off the rose colored glasses and see whats in front of us. It takes a strong parent to say my child is not perfect and did do something wrong, then to have a weak parent say my child told me this and this and that’s what I believe.
Parents?
Since I last posted in this blog about humans being generally aggressive in nature, there has been a great deal of talk about “its the parents”. Well that’s all fine and good if children have parents in the first place. I would venture a guess that most of the folks commenting here actually parent their children and the indignation about where these kids’ parents are is a bit over simplified. Sometimes kids just go “bad natured” no matter what nurtured environment they are raised in. Statistically, however, there is a enormous number of kids that are brought into this world by people that have no business, ability, desire, or the resources to nurture a child into adulthood.
So I am going to take a bit of a shot here but as long as apathy, fear and ‘classist’/racist mentality continues to grow between those that have and those that don’t, kids consequently are going to be caught in the middle and unfortunately more “shocking” events involving kids will be plastered over 24 hour news channels.
?
I get that parents have to have some responsibilities in this, but think about todays world parents are barely able to see their children and work so much because things are so tough on everyone families don’t exists like they use to. Mom stayed home and dad was home by 5 and things that were out of hand quickly got in hand. Money has taken everything away including families, we are not moving ahead in society like everyone seems to think we are becoming more barbaric like in ancient times. sadly we blame only the parents.
Basic "right" and "wrong"
Whatever happened to basic “right” and “wrong”? It’s not acceptable to threaten, kill, etc. So with that being said, who is supposed to teach your basic “right” and “wrong” to children? I can only come up with two guesses. Let’s see…Mommy and Daddy. That’s how it’s to be done, always and forever. Something goes wrong then it’s still the parents fault. Somewhere down the line parents failed these children.
The Main Problem with America
In my opinion, the prompt asking for comments demonstrates one of the fundamental problems with our nation: People are asked to jump to conclusions and make judgments, even though they have very little relevant information. They respond by giving rather simplified ‘sound bites’. Clearly, the actions of these children is morally wrong, criminal and shocking, but I don’t see how anyone can pretend to diagnose the cause, much less the solution, with the scant information available in this report! Let’s admit that problems are complex and solutions are not easy. Let’s be as RESPONSIBLE in our discourse as we would like others to be in their actions.
tough call
Ok…so I’m sitting here on my planning period and i come across this blog and I’m just like “what the heck..”. I’m a substitute teacher and I’ve had my fair share of school moments. I’m also a parent of a young child. and we’re all here trying to collaborate on where to place the blame for this situation. As an educator, a parent, AND a former child smile I must admit that the blame goes to everyone. I haven’t really hashed out which percentage goes to who but that’s neither here nor there. but just hear me out…
As a teacher, I have kids k-12 just depending on the day. The troublesome ones, regardless of age, are VERY quick to say “I don’t have to listen to you because you ain’t my mama” or “my mama said I can do what I want” or “my mama said you better NOT tell me what to do”. And, they are outright disrespectful, discontent, disturbed, and some other dis- word I don’t even know. and all hell breaks loose because nine times out of ten, their PARENTS come to their defense!! I mean. I’m a mama and I understand love and loyalty runs deep, but, c’mon now parents….it doesn’t matter what teachers tell kids or how we venture to raise them if you don’t reinforce our work on YOUR behalf! I’m 24 and I wouldn’t DARE tell someone, heck ANYONE who is an elder to me, what these kids say to teachers or adults in general. The kids aren’t taught discipline or to even respect and understand it’s purpose. and as a teacher my hands are tied because teachers are afraid of administration, he administration is afraid of the school board, the school board is afraid of the parents, the parents are afraid of the kids and the kids aren’t afraid of anything! and our children are smart. Regardless of what we tell ourselves they COME here bright as all get out and they KNOW we as adults let them have entirely TOO much power and they manipulate that Its a part of natural development — give ‘em an inch they take a mile, give ‘em ropes and they wanna be cowboys, and the parents (not all but many) LET them! The parents come to the school raising all kinds of ruckus because the teacher does what the parents are too lazy to do. Some of these parents create little monsters then wanna blame the rest of the world when their l’il tazmanian devils terrorize schools and society.
Now,,as a parent, I recognize there is a gray area between being too hard on a child and making him/her resentful to your authority…and not doing enough to shape the child in a way that is positive and beneficial. Children are a handful — no ifs, ands, or buts about it. .Even if u think you have a kid that isn’t a problem, there’s at least one person out there that would disagree. Some kids do go into left field and it’s the parents job to carry their little hind parts back to the center lane. As a parent, you can’t honestly tell me that you see your child running off into the distance of left field and say to yourself…“self — guess I can’t do anything to straighten ‘em out now.” Jacked up kids turn into jacked up parents that make even worse kids. so please, please, please, please, please, PLEASE, knuckle up and make sure you know what your kids are up to. Kids of that age plotting a thorough attack/murder with a KNIFE and HEAVY PAPERWEIGHT?!?!? Sounds like some parents let their kids have too much privacy, too many privileges (i.e. phones and computers to collaberate, etc), and too much unharnessed imagination. Now i will commend DUDE on a great portion of his eloquent argument. I’ve even had problem kids simply say they wish their parents would discipline them…and I’ve had some kids that think we owe them the world just because they’re breathing. But, by all means, the parents are responsible for their kids until they get to the age of legal accountability. only an irresponsible parent would blame the media or video games…or even invite those factors into their home. If its that violent, then you have no business giving it to a CHILD…..heck most adults can’t even objectively handle high levels of violence.
On the same token….we’ve all been kids before and gosh darn it-to-heck, we knew right and wrong even at 3rd grade. they knew they were wrong….that’s why they had lookouts. So, punishment shouldn’t even be a question. Community service isn’t going to do anything though. I mean seriously. the little kids are almost too young to really be in most environments that community service would put them, but, I think the parents should simulate the prison effect at home for like 6months. Meaning, no fancy rooms, no doors, no fancy meals, no fancy clothes, no entertainment and grueling chore punishment such as hand scrub the floors daily, wash the dishes, vacuum the carpets, polish the wood, cut the grass, paint the walls, clean the bathroom, wash the floorboards. Make them stay after school with different teachers cleaning the classrooms and school bathrooms. And, every day, make them watch a documentary on prison and the consequences of assault and murder.
As teachers and parents, we need to make them realize they can’t take things back once they’re said and done. Some might say this is harsh, but so is hauling knives and blunt objects to school because a teacher actually DID HER JOB. If they were older, this would be anywhere from an attempted manslaughter to attempted murder charge in the first degree. It needs to be drilled home by schools and parents and anyone else who cares enough about our society’s future, that this kind of thing will NOT be tolerated. Everybody needs to pitch in because we can sit at our computers smugly offering our opinions on this kind of thing….but don’t point the blame if you aren’t trying to be a part of the solution….
Refreshing
Mia, your idealism in an ever growing cynical world is refreshing!…And I applaud you for teaching, it is a very unappreciated and noble profession.
Untitled
Awesome Mia, totally agree with everything you just said. I wish there were more parents/teachers out there like you. Honestly you should write a book.
You are all right in some ways
I just picked one point and yes I agree, parents have to be held to some accountability. Of course your job as a parent is to teach your children right from wrong. In this case I don’t know what kind of parenting these kids had and I can’t sit here and judge them bad parents and its all their fault. Look at the past serial killers most of them had normal lives with great parents and still at young ages hid their crimes, their animal abuses and even some murders. The teacher has given great examples doing nothing won’t help. Scared straight works for a lot of people and hopefully something will be done for these kids. I’m 40, and when I go to my kids schools I am scared of those kids they are wild and nothing is being done to control them there, either. I give great respect to most teachers today what a scary thought to be a teacher in todays world. I don’t think I could ever do it. I don’t mean to belittle the situation either, this was a huge attempt to do real harm, even to cause someones death. I don’t, in any way, feel nothing but compassion for this teacher, but really parents, even with kids at that age, don’t realize how much anger there kids have today. Even at that age they hide things from their parents. Not all but most parents who think not my child,would be shocked to learn all their kids are capable of and what most of them have already done.Are we stupid as parents for not knowing? Or did we think we really instilled all the right values and morals in them that we trust and never had to question you only question them when you learn something that they have done wrong …and instill in them why it was wrong and hopefully punish them with something that works. So ,how do you handle that? I am a mother of five and my oldest is 18 and she was still coming in at 8pm. I kept track of things, notes to friends, Ii ease drop when I feel something is wrong I do what I can to stay on top of things. My kids have never once been in trouble, but that doesn’t mean that I am any better of a parent than those kids parents. This is not just about parenting, although, I agree a strong parent can help breed an obedient child but even that can go wrong. So, how can parents be the only ones accountable for even there young children? There obviously was one leader — why did the rest follow him and begin to carry out his plan for revenge? Maybe those children are the obedient scared type and were more scared about what would happen to them if they did not try to do this? I just think there is so much more than to just assume parents are always to blame alone. I get the parent thing — you choose to have children who you are responsible for, but I just feel there is so much more to the whole issue than to just blame them. A lot of elementary schools now have something called circle time. They talk about feeling right and wrong and other social issues. Should we, too, hold the schools responsible for doing their best? They too are trying hard to instill values and morals in kids much like any normal parent would.
One thing...
Mia, I think you have a very good point, but I think there is one thing that doesn’t seem right with your post. In your third paragraph, you say that the children had an “unharnessed imagination”. I don’t think that parents should harness their child’s imagination. They could try to tell them what’s right, but it is going too far to control what the children think. What do you think?
What about the teacher?
How about asking what the teacher really did to provoke this? I have seen some pretty poor teachers in my life. I can count the good ones on two fingers. This includes mine and my son’s teachers.
We have an adopted daughter now that our other 5 kids have moved out. After meeting and sitting in on some classes, we decided to home school her. The problem is the teachers, not the students. They show no respect for the students and so they get no respect back.
Dear Charlie and Purelabor,
By harnessing I don’t mean “controlling” but more so encouragement on positive and productive directions – not negative and destructive as the children have used their imaginations. I have an extremely vivid imagination and it was harnessed by my parents so that I didn’t limit it but monitor the thoughts I keep in ways that HELP not HURT.
Granted there are teachers out there who aren’t the best (and I agree with many parents’ decisions to home school), you must also recognize that NOTHING justifies 3rd graders planning a violent mutiny against a teacher. I don’t care if she took the kid’s desk away and made him stand on one foot; it doesn’t mean she earned what they had in store, even though their young hearts and minds may have felt she deserved it. It’s cheesy to say but we all know violence is not the answer and by no means should we as parents, adults, teachers, leaders, etc. endorse violence in schools. Often times, kids don’t respect the teachers because they don’t respect their home authority either, and hypothetically speaking, if those were home schooled children who rose up against parents like that, then I seriously doubt you would even bother with your question of what the teacher did. Whether the world likes it or not, teachers are the parents away from home.
Another thought
Having been in the field of education for more than 30 years I have seen a difference in the way children behave. I do not blame all parents for this behavior, but the majority of students in today’s society are consumed with “things”. It is sad to think that children spend more time watching TV or playing computer games than interacting with parents and siblings. I don’t know what the solution is but blaming teachers and schools is definitely not the answer.
I have seen such a lack of respect for teachers and authority figures today. Teachers are not social workers, they are not psychologists, they are paid to teach. Most of the teachers I know are dedicated to the 25 – 30 students in their classrooms for that school year (180 days). Their goal is to help each student become successful. Instilling values and teaching appropriate behavior is the responsibility of the parent. Think about that.
sorry MIA
Teachers are NOT the parents away from home. This is the USA not CHINA. We should never allow teachers to think that they are parents. They should go back to the roles as in the past. To teach and guide down the educational highway. Now I can’t figure out what they do. My daughter, when she attended public school, brought home a packet that took about 10 hours of home work to complete. What are the teachers teaching anyway? My boy never had that kind of homework and the oldest just graduated from San Diego State with a Masters. So sorry, teachers are not parents.
Charlie is right
We can’t harness children – we need to feed and grow imagination.
Teachers
There was a comment about how teachers are bad. I am currently in college pursuing an elementary education degree. I am learning to be a teacher and want to know what is bad about teachers. I’m not being defensive. I want to be a good teacher and if there are problems with teachers I want to know. I do not want to make these mistakes. In my class alone there are over thirty people wanting to teach.
There has been much talk about teachers, parents, video games and everything else to blame for these children’s actions. Children are being medicated for being active. Parents allow kids to rule the house and then when they realize there is a problem they medicate them. I remember being told to go outside and play. My grandmother gave me fruit to eat and a spanking when I was bad. The kids now say “I’ll call child services”. I hate to break it but time out does not work. Kids shouldn’t have televisions in their room and computers should be were the parents can see what is going on. Why does a third grader need privacy for, even older kids? If they want privacy tell them they will get that when they move out.
I am old school and I believe you earn respect. How many times do you hear he was disrespecting me? Do they even know what it means? This is a cultural issue. When the adults finally take back the power these kids think they have, we all will sleep better at night.
Compassion & Empathy
I agree 100% with Mr. Moran. There is not enough information in this article to allow a proper, thoughtful assessment of the situation.
I understand the passionate responses because it is a horrifying situation. Even if we understood all the nuances, it is terrifying to think that children are capable of serious, pre-meditated violence. It sends a chill up the spine of this future teacher of America.
I would like to propose that we make an effort not to fall prey to the temptation to fire blame against parents, teachers, contemporary culture, materialism, capitalism, violence, and the media. I am not denying that these are important influences in a child’s (and all) of our lives.
Submitted, for your consideration, are the concepts of empathy and compassion. I, too, felt the desire to attack all of the institutions/people discussed above. However, I think we can truly gain from this situation by allowing ourselves to feel the fear that this article invokes in all of us, rather than covering our fear by attacking with judgments.
As an aspiring teacher, this terrifies me. I also feel deeply saddened for all of the parties involved. There is a nagging thought, in the back of my mind, that tragic things happen and have always happened. This thought is probably a defense against the other things that I am feeling, but it inspires me to think of how my personal actions affect others.
Forgive me as I insert judgment here (the one thing I was attempting to avoid,) but I truly believe that my actions (and all of our actions) shape society. It’s not about morals, right & wrong, bad parenting, bad teaching, or violence in the media. It’s about the little actions we take every single day to create our culture – for better or for worse. A child who is acting up in public – do you offer that parent a sympathetic word or a nasty, judgmental look? The homeless person asking for change on the street corner – do you walk past him or offer him change or a good morning?
I believe that expressing compassion and empathy would not only be absorbed by our children but also by others. Perhaps, rather than judging, we can be models of the types of behavior we would like to see in the world.
Thank you for taking the time to read this novel :) and consider my viewpoint. I appreciated reading all of your perspectives.
sensitive are we?
Sorry it strikes a chord with you, TRUELABOR, and you don’t have to like it or even agree, but when kids are not at home generally they are at school. And at school, they receive their guidance from teachers. They receive they education from teachers. They even receive parts of their personality from teachers.
Now, this is all theoretical, and I extend the utmost of apologies if you feel that your children weren’t recipients of the best teachers, because that’s really just the luck of the draw.
But whether you like it or not, if a kid shows out at school, its a teacher that pulls them aside, sets them straight, gives them a little talking to, and sometimes adds in the tough love, not parents hidden in lockers. While parents are busy working or being house parents to younger children, teachers are at schools in a sensitive position to raise children alongside with parents in society. Some have easy jobs and some have their work cut out for them. They are the educators and caregivers in your (parents) absence, so in a sense they are kind of like surrogates; not to be replacements for the real deal, but substitutions.
And I venture to call teachers the parents away from home because of situations just like this one. The moment something outrageous happens in the schools, people are quick to blame the teachers. So we have just as much responsibility with these kids as parents do. No, it doesn’t mean we carried each and every one nine months, nursed them, changed poopy diapers, and taught them to walk. But many teachers have wiped tears, taught life lessons, given advice, been a shoulder and listening ear, give lunch money, and even love and miss children. Those things alone are more than what I can say about some biological parents.
I recognize you might feel that “no one is a parent to my child but me” but we all known the African proverb: it takes a whole village to raise a child. So have a Coke and a smile:)
PS..and I seriously think our education system could learn a couple things from China’s
Good Teachers
A good teacher respects students and builds respect for themselves. A lot of teachers act like the classroom is a ship and they are the captain of that ship. The ship is called “The Bounty”. Treat students with a little respect and you will see a big difference. If you are really trying to be a good teacher then Google ‘John Taylor Gatto”. Look for his speech on hurting kids. John Gatto was a New York Teacher of the Year at times.
African Village"?
You are right the saying it takes a village. This comes from a people whom have never had a major impact on the world. And that It takes a village saying is just stupid. Face it teachers are not gods. Here is a question to teachers out there. Why don’t teacher have to be tested every year to see if they taught the children in their care? Here in California, teachers were going to walk out if they were to be tested or have salaries hook to the number of students that pass the year end test. What’s wrong teachers ? Afraid of performance grading you? I will respect teachers when the class and the parents get to grade the teacher at the end of the year. And kill tenure – this is just a way of poor teachers keeping jobs so they can damage more children.
Agreed
Good teachers do those things, and they unfortunately are out-numbered by other….lemme see the politically correct term would be….er…“less nurturing and effective adults masquerading as educators.” I have definitely seen my share of them.
My advantage as a teacher is that I’m still young enough to know what still works on kids; I’m not so horribly far removed from my school days.
I do recognize that this type of thing does not happen with good teachers, but I also hold firm to the believe that children and teens need to be taught to respect elders (just like your generation and earlier have been taught), regardless of whether they feel the elder is unlearned or not.
We have all had teachers that suck, no doubt about it. But the difference with children nowadays is that they feel that respect is optional to any and everyone, including to their parents. Quite often, I have intervened with a child disrespecting their own parents because I feel it is my duty to aid other parents (as I am one) in this grand cause of shaping our future. But neither teaching nor childrearing is for everyone. It takes commitment, grace, patience, and forgiveness to really reach children and its saddening to admit but our caregivers are out-numbered by the demand.
LOLOL
Your view on that whole last comment is a pitiful, bitter diatribe at best.
First of all, I’m not even going to get started on all the contributions that Africans have had on America (past, present, and future). Your ignorance to even say that really astounds me, but hey, to each his own, right? That’s a whole other can of worms and you’re just baiting yourself to be chewed up and spit out. But I prefer smarter cuisine as I’m sure you wouldn’t be a satisfactory meal, so I’ll leave that alone.
Next order of business, if you detest teachers so badly then why don’t you quit typing your nails away, knuckle up, and do something to change it; be the teacher you complain that America doesn’t have. Quit sitting on your rear waiting for the next blog comment to come in, bust open a book, and teach a child History, Science, Math, English, etc. I triple dog dare you! You wouldn’t last a day in a school as a teacher without having an altered view of the profession. Until you can do that with success, then you’re just flapping your jaws about OUR teachers…the ones that taught the CEOs of the corporation that signs your paychecks.
To blatantly attack teachers the way you are is outright ungrateful, disrespectful, and full of uncouth. California is the highest ranking state for Education, so instead of your disdain, it would do you good to show some pride. Obviously, at least one of your children (I recall one having received a Masters) was NOT failed by the education system and teachers. So you’re reducing your arguments to hypocrisies.
Home Teacher
Was that African village in America? That would be an American town or city. You must be a teacher. You are right. I should teach myself, Oh, Wait, I did. And I still Home School. Like I said why do teachers fear testing of teachers?
And please remind me of what African village was great?
I think of the Greeks, Romans, Turks and many many others. What is the name of that African Village? That is something I do have a problem with. My adopted Daughter is Biracial. So don’t tell me about Villages raising children. No black family wanted her including her father. So tell me about the great villages I must have missed something. My daughter is being raised to know the truth. Not that teachers would know the truth if it bit them. She knows that all peoples have been slaves at different times. That is not taught in schools is it?
And she knows that Europe had many forms of slavery so the US is not the only one to have them. And I feel no need to feel grateful to someone who destroys a child’s mind with lies. I know that Blacks have helped shape this country and they are great, but, perhaps being here helped them to be great. Not some dusty village. Here is a good lie heard in February this year. George Washington Carver invented peanut butter. This is a case of a black man riding to fame on a lie. Tell the truth it is more impressive. He showed the poor black and white farmers that peanuts were a good cash crop the helped the soil. However he never claimed to invent peanut butter. This is the type of teaching I am talking about Learn the subject before you spew lies.
Wow...
I thought this was a conversation about a bunch of hooligan kids going after their teacher…Now it’s dare I say, a racist taking on an enlightened teacher! (you haven’t got a chance purelabor) So what were we talking about?
To Mia
No CEO from any corporation signs my check. I make my own money from my work and I do teach. My kids are all home schooled to some degree. And I have taught all my children to oppose lies. That is why we do home school. The oldest went to public school and had a back up with home school work.
And yes public school failed him. He was taking Math classes with his HS math teacher. So much for professionals. And the list of College is as follows. 1 Masters Degree Math
2 BA Tech
3 AA Tech
I am sorry that you can’t teach like the old teachers This is not personal I just have a problem with a teacher that told my daughter that brown skinned children stink. And due to her having tenure, she won’t be fired for that statement. Any one else could be charged for hate crimes but teachers are protected. In the corporate world you would be fired for that. Also, in the corporate world you are tested for performance; why not teachers?
I would think teachers should be looked at the closest. Like you say, you are in charge of many children and yet parents can not run background checks on teachers. We can on the guy who cleans out the sewer, but not the teachers that could abuse, berate or lie to our children.
Try to justify that.
Experience from "The Internet"
I am a long time user of the internet (or “the internets” as some would type). I have noticed a trend from forum to forum: 11-13 year olds are overly immature. Not only do more of them seem immature, but, in many cases, more likely to spam, swear (need I post a Youtube video?) and dish out meaningless death threats coupled with spamming and swearing when they lose at a game. Just thought someone would find this interesting.
Violence in video games does not do this
http://www.blogscooper.com/New-research-reveals-kids-who-dont-play-videogames-at-all-are-more-at-risk-of-violent-tendencies/
However, violence in the media/tv is considered one of the top 10 causes of violent tendencies by the surgeon general.
Untitled
Good grief it’s just an African Proverb. Just like we have our favorite Japanese proverbs or quotes from Confucius or whatever inspires you. And by the way every person perception on success is different. Oh and guess what when the parent isn’t at home raising their kids, guess who gets to act as a surrogate? The teachers! Face it teachers have to discipline your child when you are not there to do it(meaning teaching self control not physical punishment), they teach and do stuff that your supposed to be doing. Now I know there are pretty crappy teachers out there and shouldn’t be teaching children I only hope they can somehow be weeded out. But as long as our government has control over the school system you can forget that happening.
to ben b
I am not a racist. I have a biracial daughter and it’s the teachers that display a know it all attitude. You might know lots of wonderful teachers. But, if you noticed she refuses to answer direct questions . Who is a racist and who is an elitist? By the way, I have more college than her. Mine is a Masters in Tech. Teachers are only BA.
We are Society
Whether we like it or not, we are the social order. While I personally do not agree that “it takes a village” to raise a child, it does take parents, parents who are involved with and concerned about their children.
The social order begins in the home. Understanding that children are people, and are going to grow into their own selves, it is the parenting that directs them.
As to how the children should be corrected, I know from professional experience that a private home-owners policy can cover acts of a minor. The parents need to be aware that, while this is bad enough in every way, they need to look to the future. What if junior chooses to deliberately damage someone’s property? What if daddy’s little angel shows up on Youtube beating the daylights out of another girl? We as parents are liable for our children’s actions.
Here's my 2 cents' worth
My dad was born in 1926. Whenever he would see a child misbehaving, whether on TV or in public, he would say, “I believe I could stop that.” And you know what? I believe he could have, and I ought to know because I’m his kid. He also felt that psychologists and social workers were not only NOT helpful, but were actually harmful – which may sound somewhat extreme, but I don’t get this whole phenomenon of thinking “counseling” is the answer to every situation.
Yes, I blame today’s parents for the behavior of today’s children. Why? Because the parents of these kids are MY age, so I know them personally. This is one of the reasons I chose not to have children. The children of the 1960s and ’70s have no respect for authority, don’t know the difference between right and wrong – if it feels good, do it – I’m OK, you’re OK – etc., etc., etc.
Personally, I think these kids were “ruined” LONG before they were 8 years old. Babies’ brains are like sponges, soaking up everything that’s going on around them. Just because they can’t talk yet doesn’t mean they don’t know what’s going on. They see everything, including hypocrisy, & they think their parents are God, all knowing & all powerful. I know I did. If you raise a kid right, it won’t matter what they see on TV or what music they listen to or what games they play. It won’t turn them into an ax murderer.
Oh, well. . . i just go on & on. . .
Be Rational
(to purelabor)
Please, please, calm down.
I’m not criticizing your intelligence or integrity. I’m not trying to insult you in any way. It’s definitely impressive that you’ve been able to homeschool all your children to the point where they can get such degrees, and I applaud you for it.
That being said, calm down. You’ve clearly got a huge problem with the US education system, and teachers in particular, and it’s diminishing the logic and value of your statements. And please stop picking on Mia.
Mia’s stated, repeatedly, that she understands that there are bad teachers, and they can cause problems. She’s also stated her intentions to avoid such problems, and her goal of trying to be as competent and understanding of a teacher as possible. You are directing numerous criticisms and open insults at her, when she has said and done nothing to deserve them.
Teachers affect the development of children they teach, like it or not. Whether you want to think of it as them being a second parent, or just an educator, it’s the same thing. And just because some teachers may have issues doesn’t mean that there aren’t other teachers who genuinely care about the students and their well-being. Or that it’s a bad thing for teachers to have that kind of connection.
Your initial arguments had some merit, but you’ve devolved into name-calling and hate-spewing. “Who is a racist and who is an elitist?” Neither Mia, nor anyone else addressing you, deserved statements like that directed at them.
Neither was it logical to go from Mia’s village analogy to a complete criticism of African culture. As has been pointed out, it was just an analogy, and stating that one group of people are historically inferior is never a good way to make your case, regardless. And saying “I’m more educated than her!”? It’s petty.
Clearly you’ve had major problems with teachers, either your own or your kids’ or both. It’s made you bitter, and, to an extent, I sympathize. I’m a student, and have had many problems with both the US education system as a whole and certain teachers. I’ll admit to having hated some of them.
But that doesn’t make it fair to criticize all teachers, or to pick on Mia just because she admitted her profession to you. Some teachers suck. Others can really help you, both educationally and emotionally—almost like parents.
Please note that I’m not criticizing you. I’m not verbally (or physically :) ) assaulting you. I don’t think you