Posted on July 21, 2008 by Kathy McManus in All, Children, Ethics, Health, Parenting, Teens Comments (46)
Should You Drink With Your Kids?
Parents are frequently encouraged to share more activities with their kids. But should drinking alcohol together be one of them?
“I was 14 the first time I got falling down drunk”, Time Magazine reporter John Cloud admits in a recent article examining underage drinking. Back then, Cloud says, such antics were viewed as a “right of passage.” Today, however, an increase in the number of young hard-core drinkers has heightened concern. So is it time for parents to take a different approach toward kids and alcohol?
“At first it sounds a little nutty,” Cloud says, “but you might consider drinking with your kids.”
Drinking with your kids at home, Cloud writes—which he cautions is not the same as buying them alcohol for a party—is “a good way to teach responsible drinking behavior.”
The idea is to present alcohol not as an “alluring risk,” but as part of ordinary family life.
Addiction expert and psychologist Stanton Peele says he started giving his daughter “a few sips” of alcohol as a child at family meals. The key, Peele says, is not to make “a big deal about it.” When the girl turned 16, she was allowed to have a full glass of whatever the adults were drinking. “A second glass probably doesn’t make sense,” Peele explained, “but making hard-and-fast rules creates the sense that alcohol is some magical potion.”
But for many families, “demystifying” alcohol by consuming it with their teenagers may produce a parenting hang-over. And there is additional concern that alcohol could hurt teens’ developing brains.
Tell us what you think: Can parents teach responsibility by drinking with their kids?
Comments (46)
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That's absurd
First of all, it’s still illegal to provide a child with alcohol – even if it’s not for a party. Secondly, in a family with an overwhelming susceptibility to being an alcoholic, I wouldn’t think this “opening Pandora’s box” to be a very good idea. Alcohol is a “magic potion,” for some folks – a magic potion akin to poison. Alcoholism doesn’t develop because parents had strict rules about not drinking.. it just rears its ugly head after you begin drinking. I’m the only.. the only one in my mom’s family who can honestly say they are not an alcoholic – the only reason is because I have never drank alcohol. The biggest help in deciding this, though, was having my parents drink in front of me – so, feel free to do that and make an idiot out of yourself. Then maybe your kid will avoid alcohol altogether. It’s really stupid to suggest that folks do illegal things with children in order to promote responsibility.
RE: That's absurd
What's absurd is "That's Absurd"
The illegality of a parent providing alcohol to a child varies from state to state and it is not always illegal.
If you want to know what’s absurd, it’s America’s puritanical attitudes that permits people to carry guns and join the military to kill people yet prohibits them from having a beer on a hot day. Children abuse alcohol because society encourages them to do so by its silly prohibition. We have four children over the age of 20. Each child was exposed to responsible alcohol use beginning at age 15 and none have ever had an interest in excessive use of alcohol in large part because we removed its prohibitive mystique. It never occurred to us to worry about the legality of what we were doing with our children because the only thing that matters was/is their welfare, which remains a parental not a societal responsibility. Further, what society or our neighbors thought of our child rearing capabilities never mattered. Public stupidity and hypocrisy were and remain frequent topics in our home and our children were encouraged to ask questions and think beginning at a very young age not mindlessly follow orders. Your views on alcohol use reflect you’re very negative experiences in life just as our experiences created different less extreme views. I do regret that your experiences were so negative and sympathize with your feelings but have you considered the possibility that your parents drinking in front of you may have had little to do with your prohibitive attitudes, which may have been influenced their abuse of the substance? Most European nations have liberal laws governing the use of alcohol and they have lower rates of abuse than the US but then parents often introduce their children to wine at a young age thereby taking the mystery out of drinking. Prohibition and puritanical attitudes have never had much of an impact on American drug or alcohol use; in fact, they have had quite the opposite effect. Elimination of substance abuse requires education and rational policy and presently, the US has very little of either.
RE: What's absurd is "That's Absurd"
I agree with you 100%.
I agree with you 100%. I grew up having watered wine in my teens, for special occasions, and milk with a very little bit of coffee. I grew up to drink responsibly – never got drunk as a “rite of passage” or any other reason.
RE: I agree with you 100%.
Additional thought on using alcohol
American society maintains a belief that children will grow up and behave responsibly irrespective of what they are exposed to during their formative, developmental years. Society does not expressly make this claim but our policies and our collective actions negate anything we might say to the contrary. We expect children will become responsible parents and citizens, use alcohol, motor vehicles, and guns responsibly, and, vote rationally and intelligently. Yet, honestly, what does our society (and culture) proactively do to ensure that children grow into socially responsible adults?
When children and young adults misbehave, society is ready and willing to throw them in jail or ostracize them in some other way for antisocial behavior. Children mimic the adult world but they often act contrary to the manner adults wish them to…a contradiction for sure. Raising children therefore isn’t easy and sadly most people are unprepared for the job by temperament and experience. My heart goes out to any single mother because bearing all of the burdens of child rearing must be a heavy and terrible weight (not without its rewards but still a tremendously difficult task).
If we wish children to grow into responsible adults then we ought to consider developing laws that reflect life’s realities and human nature not what society thinks they ought to be. Our drug, alcohol, and tobacco laws are teleological in nature and hence patently unworkable, and, therefore, they should be rewritten to reflect what is. At the very least, these laws ought to reflect consistency…today, a person may smoke when they’re 18 but not drink…why is that? The same person may drive a car, buy a rifle or shotgun, or enlist in the military yet be denied a drink….because he’s “underage?” We have no problem sending an 18 year old boy to fight and perhaps die but we have the termerity to tell the same boy he isn’t responsible enough to have a drink? We wouldn’t have a drinking problem if American society accepted the reality that our kids will follow the general path we lay out for them. If we wish them to drink responsibly then we should begin teaching them how to do it when they are impressionable and willing to listen not attempt to force an unworkable hope down their throats when they reach a rebellious age (and lock them up when they don’t obey society’s arbitrary dictums). Beyond basic academic education, it isn’t society’s job to teach children how to do drink or behave in a socially acceptable fashion; traditionally, that’s the roll of parents.
From what I have seen, parents haven’t been fulfilling their job for quite some time but I don’t blame parents entirely for this breakdown. Society hasn’t troubled itself to support parents in any meaningful way for perhaps 30 years; yet, it makes considerable demands on parents, including de facto requiring families to have two working adults to stay above the national poverty level; society rarely bothers to concern itself whether its demands are reasonable or even achievable. Government passes laws, our leaders thump their chests over how responsible society has become under their tutelage, and then they point a finger when public policy fails to work. Failure is blamed on the influence of Hollywood and/or television, the education system (i.e., teacher’s unions&), homosexuals, women’s liberation, liberal social values…whatever. Rarely is public policy reconsidered as a cause for failure and it is almost never faulted for being poorly conceived or simply wrong-headed.
As far as I can tell, the last time this county formally reconsidered a social agenda was the repeal of the Volstead Act and Prohibition. The alcohol, drug, and tobacco problems we have today are partly caused by poor parental example but the greatest impediment to improving what many perceive as socially irresponsible behavior is failed public policy and our political leadership’s unwilling to accept that it has in fact failed miserably. Nothing in this country will change until we own up to these failures and find a different path to follow.
RE: Additional thought on using alcohol
Society, Alcohol, and Drugs
Very little consideration is given to the teens, especially those disadvantaged are who are arrested on minor drug charges once and are sent to jail, where they of necessity socialize with serious adult criminals, and then are released with a criminal record. Thus they are virtually unable to find a legitimate job. One wrong decision, or being at the wrong place at the wrong time, has had an out-of-proportion effect on their entire future, as they seem to have no option but crime. The new Mayor of Newark, New Jersey, a relatively young political activist named Corey Booker, has been working for a solution to that problem, advocating for difficult, disciplined rehab alternatives to jail time for these individuals, working with local corporations to hire these young men and women. There are a number of companies who have signed on, and time will tell how well this works, but I applaud his efforts, and hope they succeed and will be copied in other areas. (I saw Mr. Booker interviewed on Caucus NJ on PBS). As it appears we cannot rely on our federal government to create this type of programs (as it seems we cannot rely on them to make the environmentally responsible decisions), we must rely on local and state governments (notably California on the environment) to lead the way.
Teach Your Children Well
We teach our children in many ways, including by example. Our children learn how to respond to things like injuries, bad news, rudeness, in part by how parents react and behave. So, since alcohol is a part of our culture, and it’s here to stay, what better way to show our children how to drink responsibility then to show them ourselves?
I wouldn’t recommend a parent with a drinking problem trying this, but by showing children how to maintain a healthly relationship with alcohol, maybe we can reduce the risk of alcoholism and excessive drinking in their future. Isn’t some cautionary education better than nothing for all young people?
We really do need to teach our children, that is, our older children, how to drink in moderation, to never drink and drive, not to drink when one day they become pregnant, only to drink while eating, to drink water along with alcohol, to drink out of the proper glass, to drink to celebrate special occasions, to always have a clever, cheerful toast in mind, and not to call attention to yourself while drinking.
You know from being a teenager that most things that you were denied you found intriguing. You wanted access to it to solve the mysteries around it. Knowledge is power. We should teach our older children how to enjoy alcohol and how to protect themselves from its misuse, the same way we teach them how to be responsible with an automobile, electricity, fire, money, etc. so they have power over it and it never over powers them.
That's absurd - Part 2
I agree with Candy’s comments and would like to add that I hope your approach wouldn’t be the same regarding teaching your children about sex. Too many parents want to be a friend to their children instead of the parent because it just isn’t as fun being the bad guy sometimes. But, that is definitely the RESPONSIBLE thing to do.
RE: That's absurd - Part 2
WOW
The next thing you people will say is “ Hey I do not want you to learn how to do heroine the wrong way so let me show you how!!” Or, here…this is how you roll a joint so your buddies at school don’t laugh at you for doing it wrong!!!
I know that drinking and doing heroine are not the same thing but you are encouraging unacceptable behavior!!! As an adult there is a line that you draw and it is when it is teaching them the “right” way to break the law!!! Alcohol is against the law for anyone under 21!!
I have raised 3 children and am now raising a 4th…YOU CAN NOT TEACH RESPONSIBILITY BY BEING IRRESPONSIBLE!!!! And teaching CHILDREN how to drink responsibly is a double negative!!!
Yeah, teach your kids to break the law
What a completely preposterous idea. I’m not completely against drinking, and would have no problem with parents drinking with their kids, once their kids are 21. For whatever reason the law was made, we need to respect it or do something to change it, not give our children permission to break the law, just as long as your doing it with “responsible” (yeah, right) adults present. A responsible adult would not condone such behavior. Teaching your children to be responsible with alcohol would include being a good example themselves with alcohol, talking to your kids about the consequences of being irresponsible, and teaching them to respect the laws about it. It is absurd to break the laws to teach them responsibility. What kind of idiot thinks that makes sense?
RE: Yeah, teach your kids to break the law
Missing the point
Many of you are completely missing the point of teaching our youth to be responsible and make wise decisions. Do you really think that loving parents would be teaching their children to break the law as opposed to not being a foolish person? You must let them know that talking on a cell phone while driving, STDs, guns, violence and drug abuse are also just as wrong. You must teach that the consequences are not worth the risk of hurting or killing yourself or others. What age should we be teaching our young people to not commit suicide? Age has nothing to do with being a responsible person. If you wait until too late to address these issues, 21 may be the anniversary of your child’s death.
RE: Missing the point
I agree, but...
You do not have to drink with your kids to address the issue – just as you don’t have to be responsibly promiscuous around your kids to teach them about safe sex. Talking with our kids and having our actions follow it up does a lot. We don’t need to allow our kids to do something illegal (and by the way if in your state it’s not illegal, I have no problem) to teach our kids the right way to handle something. That is a huge oxymoron, and quite hypocritical.
RE: Missing the point
Thinking for one's self
All people and that includes mature children should be taught to deal with situations according to conscience. Granted, society passes laws but can you or anyone honestly claim that all such laws are reasonable, fair, or even Constitutional? Our government is torturing people in our name, which is patently illegal but they do it any way. Any law that is unreasonable can and should be ignored. Black people didn’t gain their civil rights because whites willing granted them. They began by refusing to sit in the back of the bus and by demanding equality in the face of official racism. White people of conscience joined in the struggle and the civil rights movement was born. Roe v Wade and the environmental movement didn’t begin with our political leaders either. Politicians are always behind the curve and they respond to public pressure for change. I believe in selective non-violent disobedience to stupid and silly laws that do more harm then good and I have always encouraged my children not to be afraid to stand up for what they believe in. And I agree completely that parents should begin teaching their children socially responsible behavior when they are quite young. Any parent who believes they can do nothing for 18 years and then expect their children to know proper behavior is delusional.
RE: Yeah, teach your kids to break the law
You have to teach your child to be responsible and if you all together say no and they know they can get it, then they will — no matter if you agree with it or not. I know I would much rather have my kids at home with me if they were going to have a drink so I could teach them responsibility about it and not have them out there with their teenage friends doing it out of control. In this day and age you have to be a friend and a parent to your children or they will be out of control.
Drink with your kids
I think kids are smarter than we give them credit for. I think drinking is okay with my own children with common sense. If a Dad is getting into trouble with the Law and losing jobs all the time. The kids see the problem. On the other hand like myself I’ve kept the same job for years don’t drink and drive. Don’t bother others. My kids see that and know what is right and wrong. What I dislike most is other people/groups being judges of whats good for my Family.
Learn by example
As underage drinking is illegal at this time I would say that leading by example would be a good way to teach our children about “responsible” drinking. If you try to hide your drinking or deny it then your children may see that as the only way to drink, however, if you have a drink or two in front of them and show them how to be responsible, IE… not driving, not fighting, etc. then isn’t that a far more effective lesson?
Alcohol Consumption with Children
Alcoholic parents often do not acknowledge that they are in fact alcoholics, and here in lies the ability to make a sound and clear choice of acceptable behavior. Alcoholics in general have a line of reasoning miles long to justify their choices and the resulting fall out from those choices. Parents who think they can teach their children about alcohol by drinking with them are deluding themselves and it is abdicating the role of the parent. Parents need to be brutally honest with their motives for this life lesson. This generation is obsessed with protecting children, with car seats, seat belts, helmets, and so on, that they can then rationalize drinking with children makes no sense at all. The human brain continues to develop until age 25. Beyond the occasional religious ceremony providing a child with alcohol is a poorly thought out decision.
RE: Alcohol Consumption with Children
lead by example 2
I agree with Lucy and in going back and reading my own post I felt I needed to clarify a little of what I said, I believe that if my husband or I have a drink or two in front of my kids and make sure I am still behaving responsibly myself that they will learn by watching me more than if I were to pretend to them that I never take a drink at all. Knowing that they are smart enough to know differently!
Removing the taboo
My parents did the same with me when I was 15-16 years old (I am now 28). When I got to college, other kids were enamored with this new activity that they had never been allowed to participate in and that was so taboo. And we all know when something is taboo…we want it more. I wasn’t that way. It wasn’t a big deal to me – being exposed to it early and understanding that alcohol is to be enjoyed and not overdone – made my college experience far less dangerous than others.
This is a European idea
Many Europeans drink with the family and have no problem. It’s my opinion that giving it to a young adult or even a child might do some type of damage not to their brains but the liver and kidneys that have to filter it. I sometimes cook with wine and have given my children cough syrup and we know mouth wash has it already in the ingredients so why use your child as a guinea pig?
I believe with good communication and a good relationship with your child they will tell you what they are doing and when they want to try something, hopefully they will be enough but I wouldn’t just give it to them as a child.
RE: This is a European idea
What are stats on European disease?
I don’t think that Europeans have a higher rate of kidney or liver disease that can be traced to alcohol in teen years, but I haven’t researched it. Has anyone else? If, as I believe, it is not a problem in Europe, then it probably wouldn’t be here in the U.S.A. Again, I haven’t looked into any scientific studies, if there are any, but would appreciate from hearing from anyone who has.
RE: What are stats on European disease?
Stat on European alcohol-related disease
I used to believe it was better to allow kids to drink at home at a young age until I went to work in the field. Now I realize that countries where children do drink with meals from a young age have a higher incidence of alcoholism and of alcohol related disease and deaths. Search the web. A link to the first study I pulled up is: http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/agl124v1
New data in the US supports this: those who begin drinking before the age of 15 are 5 times more likely to become alcoholics than those who do not drink until age 21. I don’t have a problem with those who are of legal age drinking responsibly, and there are now good reasons to wait until 21 because of impact on the developing brain of younger people.
Other comments: It is not illegal in my state to provide alcohol to your own child, but in almost every state it is illegal to provide to other minors and in many states that also carries liability for any injuries or accidents involving those minors while under the influence.
Parents have the right to choose their stance on this and, I believe, they have an obligation to do the research so they make an informed decision and do not do harm to their children.
While they are at it, they might consider that 2/3 of all date rapes are alcohol-related, a consequence of young people drinking that is ignored…and allowing them to drink at home tells them it is OK to drink anywhere, according to student high school surveys nationwide.
RE: Stat on European alcohol-related disease
Analysis of study
In regard to the study from Oxford Journals referred to above, I note that they use a 2002 highest consumption of PURE alcohol (in the Moldova Republic) as 24.9 liters (1 liter is approx. equal to 1 quart). That equates, at a percentage of pure alcohol in beverages ranging from 4% (such as beer) to 40% (80-proof liquor), to a total annual beverage consumption of, at 4%, 622.5 liters per year to, at 40%, 62.25 liters per year. Yes, I agree: drinking over a quart of distilled spirits a week, or more than 10 quarts of beer a week (52 weeks per year), is apt to cause disease. (The study quotes a more healthy World average of 7.1 liters of pure alcohol per year.)
The study also compares drinking behaviors, e.g., whether public drunkenness is acceptable in a particular country (which I personally do not consider acceptable at any age), and the effect of inferior-quality liquors containing 1-propanol, isamyl alcohol, isobutanol, aliphatic alcohol congeners, and up to 35% ethanol, which are all linked to liver disease and cirrhosis. These are not typically found in U.S. beverages, to the best of my knowledge. Also, the study did not break out data by age, but by national drinking patterns and quantity.
I think we can all agree (at least I do) that children between the ages of, say, 11 and 15 should not have more than about 6 oz. PER YEAR of an alcoholic beverage, not pure alcohol; for instance, an ounce or so of champagne at New Year’s, on his or her birthday, on July 4th, and on one or two family or religious holidays. This is my suggestion for a MAXIMUM; I have no problem with an absolute prohibition until about age 15, later if the teen is not interested. I would like to know the source of your statistics on date rape (I suspect more aligned with illegal drugs) and implied approval of drinking location.
RE:
It's still illegal to drink with a minor
It’s still illegal to drink with a minor. I don’t care what you are trying to teach them. Now, if folks want to teach responsible drinking at a legal age, go for it. But, until a kid turns 21, the ONLY responsible drinking is NON ALCOHOLIC. It would be illegal and therefore, irresponsible to include them in drinking alcoholic beverages.
RE: It's still illegal to drink with a minor
Some states
The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 states that revenue will be withheld from states that allow the purchase of alcohol by anyone under the age of 21. Some states do not allow those under the legal drinking age to be present in liquor stores or in bars (usually, the difference between a bar and a restaurant is whether food is being served). Contrary to popular belief, since the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984, few states specifically prohibit minors’ and young adults’ consumption of alcohol in private settings. As of January 1, 2007, 14 states and the District of Columbia ban underage consumption outright, 19 states do not specifically ban underage consumption, and an additional 27 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage consumption laws.
Federal law explicitly provides for religious, medical, employment and private club possession exceptions; as of 2005, 31 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage possession laws.
Underage purchase of alcohol, though illegal in all fifty states, is not a felony, but a misdemeanor. See underage drinking in the United States.
RE: It's still illegal to drink with a minor
Not illegal with parents
It is not illegal for a person under 21 to consume alcohol if they are with their parent or legal guardian. This is true in the home as well as in restaurants or bars. Parents or legal guardians can purchase alcohol for their under-age children, by law. Therefore, it is not illegal.
RE: Not illegal with parents
How I handled it as an employee of a liquor mfg.
I had access to a CD from my company that gave you a test on how fast and what you were drinking. Then it told you what your blood alcohol content would be. I made my daughter take the test as a teenager and did allow her to drink in our home. I wanted her to know what her limit was and how much she could drink in order to stay under control and under the legal limit. I feel like it was my responsibility to provide her with that information to make informed choices.
Teach Your Older Children Well
Here’s a suggestion for those of us who want to educate our children about drinking responsibly, but don’t want to break the law.
Substitute non-alcoholic beverages like sparkling grape juice in place of Champagne. The ritual of celebration with the popping of the cork and the tiny bubbles can still be enjoyed.
The point is to teach (and therefore protect) our older children, not intoxicate them. We need to train them that you don’t drink alcohol the same way you drink soda or tonic – sipping verses drinking; tasting and enjoying verses re-hydrating, etc.
It is a Parent's Responsibility
To NOT make things taboo so that kids will be tempted to overindulge and harm them as soon as they cut the apron strings.
Drinking at our house was neither a ritual nor an everyday thing, nor did we drink to get drunk. When our children were in their teens, many of their schoolmates, under the constraints of “Don’t you EVER let me catch you drinking!” – simply didn’t get caught – until my husband or I, EMTs, worked on them after their fatal or near-fatal wrecks or parties. Our children knew the dangers of drinking, and drank wine, beer, and liquor IN MODERATION with us from their teens. When they all left home to go to college, they frequently were the designated drivers, and one was a resident’s assistant and took care of the other students in the dorms. She knew the symptoms of alcohol poisoning as well as drug overdose, and held peoples’ heads over toilets, got them into bed, or called the ambulance as situations directed.
All of our children were raised with common sense and that some things were a fact of life, and didn’t need to be explored on the sly, away from Mom and Dad’s judgment. By making sure that they knew that overindulgence in drinking, drugs and multiple sex partners were damaging to their emotional and physical health, they had a greater self respect and a tendency to not indulge or overindulge. No we did not have sex with them or do drugs with them; but waiting till they were of an arbitrary “legal” age to have a drink with them was foolish. If Americans would take a hard look at their silly self-righteousness for one second, they would realize that their counterparts in Europe have it right – the more restrictions you lay on your child, the less responsible they are when they leave your feathered nest. Maturity only comes with full information on actions and consequences, and the ability to make an informed and intelligent decision.
RE: It is a Parent's Responsibility
Couldn't have put it better.
That says it all.
legal does not equal right
Throughout history, there has been a long succession of bad laws. Whether it was the authority of Roman men to control life and death for their wives, children, and servants, or the arbitrary decision on the part of modern government that once someone turns eighteen they magically become a responsible adult, the fact remains that laws are made by humans, and that humans are not infallible. I’m sure that for the Roman lawmakers, it made perfect sense to allow infanticide if the father didn’t like the look of his child. Likewise, modern society sees nothing wrong with turning people loose at eighteen just because they’re eighteen. It’s been almost two and half years since I turned eighteen, and I personally have yet to feel any more adult and responsible than I was at seventeen.
Like a few other people who’ve commented, my parents were of the “teach enjoyment in moderation” school. They took this approach with my younger brother as well. We’ve turned out rather different, but then we’re different people. Having had the option of a glass of whatever with dinner since age fourteen or fifteen (see how little it matters? I don’t even remember how long it’s been), I’ve developed a taste for the better and generally more expensive stuff, which now that I’m living on my own means I barely drink at all because I’m spoiled. My brother, who takes after our rather neurotic maternal grandmother, never recovered from his knee-jerk reaction brought on by early conditioning from the DARE program during elementary school. He refuses to touch alcohol at all. In fact, he scolds me and my parents when we have beer or wine with dinner. At no point has he been forced to partake, but the option remains if he ever gets over himself.
An excellent historical example of what happens when you try to eliminate something is the Prohibition of the 1920’s. The brewery, distillation, and selling of alcohol was banned by law, and so it went underground. Underground, the industry came under the control of organized crime, which is why the 1920’s were so famous for gangsters. The consumption of alcohol actually went
upduring Prohibition, not down, and many people were killed and injured due to the hidden nature of the industry. My aforementioned neurotic grandmother, who granted was not born until 1929, had an aunt who, until her death quite recently, was probably one of the last people to know who really killed Bugsy Siegel. No, she didn’t tell anyone, at least not that I know of.When it comes to legality, most of the time people should just use common sense. Don’t steal stuff, don’t kill people, don’t drive when you’re not in your right mind. As I’ve said, just because something is the law doesn’t mean that it’s right. Huckleberry Finn, you may remember, decided that he was willing to go to hell for “stealing” Jim by setting him free. According to law and society, Huck would have been expected (and required, even) to return Jim to slavery. However, by the end of their journey, Huck had realized that the law and society were wrong, and was able to do the right thing, even though it went against what he had been taught.
In a less clear-cut example, I have a good friend who is seventeen. Her younger brother is a violent maniac, and her parents are so busy feeling sorry for him and dealing with his issues that they ignore their very bright, very sensible, and very vulnerable daughter. There have been numerous occasions where I’ve been talking to my friend and she mentions off-hand that her brother did something to her hand last week, and it still hurts. When I ask if she’s seen a doctor about it, she says that her parents won’t take her. If I were to try and get her medical care, the doctor or what have you would most likely refuse to treat her if her parents weren’t present because she’s underage. She doesn’t want to be taken by child services because she wants to stay in school so she can become a special education teacher. This also means that she can’t apply for emancipation, since she’d have to support herself and that would affect her ability to go to school. Forget the fact that her parents have announced that she’s being kicked out of the house on her eighteenth birthday, which is in January, in the middle of what will be her senior year of high school. She’s a really bright kid, and it would be an undeniable tragedy for her to be doomed to a life of minimum wage jobs just because her parents are self-absorbed idiots.
Age restrictions on things like drinking and the ability to make decisions are arbitrary numbers created by those in power. “How old should you be before you’re considered old enough to make informed decisions?” “Oh, I dunno… eighteen’s a good number. Make it eighteen.” Everyone is different. I know people who were more responsible at fifteen than others are at thirty. You need to think about mental age, not just physiological age. You get a similar problem with the mentally disabled. Say you’ve got a ten-year-old whose mind will never develop past the age of six months. She has no use for reproductive rights, and she will need constant care for the rest of her life no matter how old she gets. She will never be independent, so why is there an age limit on benefits for the families of people with disabilities? My youngest brother is fifteen, and has moderate to severe autism. He’s never going to be able to live independently either, and my parents won’t always be able to take care of him. The state where my parents live provides a respite worker who comes on the weekends and takes him around swimming, shopping, and visiting. My brother loves it, and one of his few vocabulary phrases is “I want Tony”, the name of his respite worker. Unfortunately, the state is only obligated to provide services until my brother turns twenty-one, after which we’re on our own. I suspect that we’re expected to institutionalize him at that point, an idea that I’m not too crazy about for my baby brother.
Laws are human constructs. They have nothing to do with sense, or morality. Just because something is the law does not mean that it’s right.
American Intolerance
Remember when the legal drinking age was 18? I remember drinking with my parents when I was in high school. I remember relatives drinking. It actually made me not want to take part in these activities and by the time I was 21 and did take part in these activities it never led to harming myself or anyone else. In Europe children regularly drink wine with dinner and may have a pure German beer on holiday. Why is it that Americans have to make so many laws that dictate what you can and can’t do? And why does this country imprison more of it’s citizens than any other country in the world? Is it because we have so many ridiculous laws to break?
RE: American Intolerance
Yes, I remember
The feds changed the drinking age—as well as the voting age—to 18 because they were drafting 18-year-olds to go to war. You could fight and die, drive a car, but not drink or vote. It was ridiculous. They changed it back to age 21 to make all states consistent, so that teens would not cross state borders to drink. Better to have made them all 18, in my humble opinion.
Although I consider myself a liberal, which too many means in favor of big government and laws “for your own good”, I note the similar root of “liberal”, “liberty”, and “libertarian”. There are areas in which the government has little, if any, business in intruding: those dealing with strictly private matters, such as what one does in one’s own home or with one’s own body.
Legality
My understanding of the law is this: in many (most) areas it is perfectly legal for a parent to serve their own child alcohol in their own home.
My own experience
My father is an extremist Christian and outlawed any drinking by kids what so ever. This attitude made drinking something that “grown ups” do and every kid I knew wanted to be grown up. My mom couldn’t care less and while living with her I found my self at 15 choosing a Coke over a beer because it just sounded better at that particular time.
I don’t really know what is best for every child, only what would work for kids with my personality type. My personal opinion though is that if you’re old enough to decide to join the military and risk your life defending the constitution, you should be able to have a beer, at the absolute minimum, at the base enlisted bar, if not elsewhere. Another thing is, I don’t think the nanny-state will keep people from becoming alcoholics if they are determined to be.
Freedom and drugs
Alcohol is a drug, one of the worse. It is also part of Americana. Just like freedom of choice. I think each person must try to manage drinking. Who better to introduce and share the experience, but family? But let the dice roll.
The Status Quo is not working
Under the status quo, the US is one of the few countries that have a drinking age of 21, and the rationale behind such a movie is that the higher the age limit, the people who are less mature stay away from alcoholic beverages and we have a safer community.
Unfortunately this is simply not the case. Even with several government education programs, many kids often go through underage drinking, and some even start binge drinking before the age of 21, which is extremely unhealthy, and can lead to aggressive behavior that can hurt other innocent people.
Why is this? Naturally because the US goes for abstinence rather than experience and awareness, for students and teenagers in general, drinking is often considered an extremely ‘cool’ activity, which has created a situation where a lot of high school parties and such often involve alcohol. It is the student’s perspective of alcohol that I believe is the true cause of underage drinking.
This is why I believe that parents should indeed drink with their kids. Now, I am not suggesting that all parents should take their children with them the next time they go to a bar, but I believe that parents should be allowed to choose how they would educate their children. By allow parents to introduce their children to alcohol in a controlled environment, it is inevitable that there will be a change in the way that teenagers view drinking, which means that during their high school and college years, drinking won’t necessarily be considered that big of a deal.
"ostrich politic"
To say:“It’s illegal I can’t do that” is sticking your head in the sand. So is running red lights, but everybody does it and for lesser reasons than protecting their child. I grew up in a country where, if you can pay for a beer, you can have a beer, and believe me when I say, there aren’t any more alcoholics there than anywhere else. I’m not advocating lawlessness here, but think about it. If they want to drink, they’ll find a way, why not teach them responsibility? Why not teach them, at home, how far they can go, without getting drunk to the point they have no clue where they are or how to get home? Teach them that if they drink, to stop after one or two…. Having a glass of beer during a football game, or a glass of wine with dinner doesn’t make you an alcoholic, at any age.
If you don’t teach them at home, you run the risk of finding your 14 year old on the couch, in an alcoholic stupor, inches from going into a coma, because he went to a friend’s house, they raided the liquor cabinet, and since he had no idea what “tipsy” or plain “drunk” felt like, he kept drinking until he went to sleep and wouldn’t wake up…….. his friends didn’t know what to do, so they drove him home and left him on your couch………
Yes, it may be against the law, but in your own home, it’s the best lesson you can teach your child, short of taking him to a psych ward where the detox patients are, or the ones that are so far gone, they have no idea where their nightmares end and reality starts…..
Last I checked, alcohol itself, was not illegal, what happens behind your front door is nobody’s business, and if you’re worried about being “ratted out” don’t broadcast it. But consider this….. if you can prevent your child from finding out that one beer is their ultimate limit and from getting killed, or killing somebody else, because they’re drunk and they don’t realize it….. would you? I would! Any parent should!
Drinking with your kids?
It’s very difficult to enforce a “Do as I say but not as I do” policy so I include drinking in front of your kids in the same category as literally sharing any amount of alcohol with them at any age.
Both of my parents were very heavy drinkers. I considered wine, beer and scotch to be a part of my life virtually all of my life. Excessive use of alcohol causes problems. I saw that clearly.
But the problem of drinking with your children comes down to some basic decisions, as far as I am concerned.
If I present a life hurdle to my children, it is my responsibility as a parent to demonstrate how to handle that hurdle and handle it consistently. In other words, I have the responsibility to point out all the dangers involved in using and/or abusing alcohol, the first of which is the relationship between permissiveness with alcohol and the probability of sampling other intoxicants, the second of which is driving.
If someone gets intoxicated at my home, my son or daughter or someone else’s, like a bartender, I have the responsibility to maintain control of them if they can’t, because of alcohol, maintain control of themselves. Otherwise, if they get into an accident, whether the law in my state says so or not, I am responsible.
I’ve done enough drinking in my life to understand alcohol very well. I also served as an intern addictions counselor and have that perspective to work with.
I see alcohol as a well entrenched part of socialization, as a relied upon coping mechanism and trigger for the relaxation response in many. I also see it as part of a destructive disease that has killed more people than I can possibly count, ruined many a life, many a family and, at the same time, brought millions of dollars to a handful of people.
My kids saw me drink many times and I regret that I ever let that happen. I took an immovable stand against drugs, contraband and the use of proscription drugs but that stand was mitigated by my use of alcohol and weakened my position as a parent in this vital area.
If I had it to do over again as a parent, not only would I not drink in front of my kids, alcohol would have no place in my home as long as I had minors living with me.
The Bigger Picture
The increased abuse of alcohol by young adults is probably more a symptom of the dysfunctional lives they are living than anything else.
There has always been drinking at parties in college and I can see a young person occasionally have a little too much to drink. Today, getting and staying drunk all weekend seems to be a goal for a good majority of our youth.
Alcoholism, drunk driving accidents and date rapes are the heavy price our children are paying for this behavior.
Teaching your children to be responsible whether with alcohol or anything is not done in a vacuum. If you want your children to drink responsibly, it is important to set the example for them.
My husband and I have raised four children ages (26 to 19) and have never had a problem. We drink very little ourselves, but always have a wine and mixed drinks when we have company. Our friends are quite responsible drinkers, and so they too set the example for our family.
Like with most things, “Do as I say and not as I do!” just doesn’t work with kids.
If you and your friends are big drinkers, save your breath.
It Might Be a Better Solution
Kids don’t come with instructions, but with a little help they learn quickly what is socially acceptable, versus what is happening in their home. Drinking has at least 2 or 3 socially appropriate situations. At dinner, or family gatherings, there are usually glasses with wine, or maybe a mixed drink to help “loosen” things up. Kids get mixed messages here, what does “loosen” up imply?
Well, we, as adults know it means we suddenly don’t feel the weight of the world on our shoulders, sometimes we laugh at stuff that may not be all that funny, or we say something under normal circumstances that might have not come out. So kids have to pause and learn that alcohol has “effects”. The “effects” can at times seem very humorous, as seen in countless television shows where a celebrity is seen toting a drink, (more social drinking) as parents do we care to explain the difference? I don’t think so, it starts to cut into being a “certain age” and drinking as in getting high. Kids need to be made aware of body weight and alcohol content, they will face these questions on their drivers license.
I do think that by gradually allowing kids some wine at the table with dinner, will give them that grown-up sense, and will hopefully quell some of their curiosity.
RE: It Might Be a Better Solution
"Loosen Up"?
I, in no way, intend to judge in this post but I do have an opinion and it may sound judgmental.
To me, the function of an alcoholic drink at a party or family dinner is not to loosen up, but simply to partake of a beverage whose flavor I enjoy. If I found the beverage having any effect on my mood, or found my judgment as to appropriate comments or laughter affected, I would quit immediately. In that case, I would consider it rather a drug than a beverage, and I take drugs only in the case of medical necessity.
I realize that this post reads as though I am making a personal judgment, and I do not mean to do so; I merely am stating my opinion on alcoholic beverages.
Learned Respect for Alcohol
I was taught very early in life to respect alcohol. If I ever wanted a drink, I was always allowed a sip of my parents. The older I got the more I was allowed to have. As a teenager I was given my own glass of margarita or whatever my parents were drinking, however that was it. I was never allowed to have more than one.
As I went to college I was never that drunk girl. You know the one that everyone has to take care of or the one you are worried about getting taken advantage of. I was never her. In my pledge class in my sorority I was the unofficial mom of the party crew. Always taking care of those who did not know their limit.
I figured out that I respected alcohol. I didn’t abuse it nor did I need it to have a good time. I respected alcohol and I was never taught it was a bad thing. I think somehow that took off the need to be drunk all the time because in my family drinking was not rebellious, but why would it be when my parents knew i wouldn’t be that drunk girl.
Mr. Cloud's Thesis is Dangerous!
Mr. Cloud has presented a notion that is totally irresponsible. By what measure do we define “responsible drinking” of the drug alcohol. Yes, alcohol is a drug albeit a legal one. Most people can use this drug without a problem. He calls getting drunk “a right of passage” for kids. Outside of the admission that he got drunk at a young age, by what means does he dare to determine that getting drunk at a young age is a normal right of passage? He offers none. This is an irresponsible assumption. If there is a responsible and valid study that tells us this is true, then he would be correct in his statement. However, none is offered here. Such a research result would be no cause for rejoicing. Mr. Cloud’s idea first teaches children that drinking is alright. Well, for most people who do drink, it does no harm and these people have the right to drink. For those people, it is alright. How do we know if a child has the proclivity for the disease of addiction? We do not. How much better to advocate that parents teach their children that their own use of alcohol, assuming we are dealing with a parent that does drink in a non-abusive or addictive manner, is based on the parent having learned that they themselves do not have any problem with the drug alcohol and the parent teaching the child of the potential risks of drinking.
Guidance
Alcohol is something that is safe when used properly in small quantities. Parents should teach their children that alcohol should not be used to be “cool” or as a way of numbing pain. That alcohol is a beverage that you must consume in modest amounts or you will put others in danger.
Parents need to be honest about alcohol, its dangers and facts about it. Whether parents drinking in front of children are harmful depends on whether parents are setting a good example that backs up proper drug education.
drinkin with your teenagers
I find this to be a neutral thing as where is it safe for our teenagers now out on the streets? God only knows what is going in a drink or when they get to the point of asking questions and wanting to drink why not have them at home where there safe and see if it agrees with them.
Cocaine energy drink is a BAD idea
I have been working on a project to keep kids safe. I am trying to organize fathers to be more actively involved with these problems by sharing parenting techniques that work. I informally dubbed it the “Daddy Network” meaning that we should call to discuss parenting issues.
One of the first issues that we tackled, thanks to one father, was the Cocaine energy drink. One father thought it was a bad idea to sell this, and said so.
His story is here:
Daddy Network